Facebook

[charusu]

Hi Everybody,

So I recently made Japanese the default language on my Facebook page to see how some Facebook actions get translated (which has been fantastically fun by the way).

When looking at a post about somebody being tagged in an album I saw タグ付けされました , which I *think* is the causative-passive form that has been contracted from タグ付けさせられました.

But Wikipedia (excerpt below) says that this kind of contraction does not occur with ichidan verbs, but in the phrase above it looks like this contraction has been made. Can anybody help me understand why? Or am I thinking about it incorrectly?

THANKS!!!

<EXCERPT>

The causative passive form is obtained by first conjugating in the causative form and then conjugating the result in the passive form. Usage As its rule suggests, the causative passive is used to express causation passively: 両親に勉強させられる ryōshin ni benkyō saserareru: "(I) am made to study by (my) parents".
Because words such as 待たせられる mataserareru are considered to be difficult to pronounce, frequently in colloquial speech, the middle part of the causative passive would contract. That is, 待たせられる mataserareru (I was made to wait), would become 待たされる matasareru. Another example such as "(I) was made to buy (something)" would formally be 買わせられた kawaserareta from the verb 買う kau, but colloquially, it is frequently contracted to 買わされた kawasareta. This abbreviation is not used for Ichidan verbs ('ru' verbs), nor for the irregular する suru and くる kuru

</EXCERPT>

 

[Toritoribe]

Quite simple. It's not the causative-passive but just the passive of する.

タグ付けする → タグ付けされる

 

[charusu]

Ah yes! Makes perfect sense! So here 付け is the base 2 stem (masu form stem) that is being used as a noun right?

Thanks again friend!

 

[Toritoribe]

Perfect!

 

[Glenn]

I'd like to jump in here with my own question, since I had my Facebook set to Japanese for a while too: is that read たぐづけ? That's how I'd been reading it, and it seemed right, but I may as well be sure.

 

[charusu]

I've gone with たぐつけ, let's see what the Godfather says...

 

[Toritoribe]

That's たぐづけ. The rendaku occurs on つけ, as same as ランク付け, さん付け, 外付け, 直付け, 糊付け,,,.

 

[Glenn]

Ah, thanks. Out of curiosity, is there a different rule for 付き? It seems like it stays unvoiced, like in 露天風呂付き or 生ビール付き, for instance. Is that right?

(examples pulled from 一休.com)

 

[saheki51]

Most of "noun+付け" were read "づけ". But, there are exceptions. "絵付け","墨付け","刃付け" were read "つけ". ("刃付け", I'm not sure.)
I don't know why. Wild guess, these are techniques of industrial arts. So, old expressions had survived.
Also, "糊付け" is usually read "糊づけ", but one web dictionary says "糊つけ" is ok.
And "タグ付け" is a new word, so I can't say "タグつけ" is completely wrong, though I prefer "タグづけ".
And "付き" is "つき". I think there is no exception.
Sorry for my poor English.

 

[Glenn]

No problem. I understood you just fine. Thanks!

 

[Toritoribe]

Ah, thanks. Out of curiosity, is there a different rule for 付き? It seems like it stays unvoiced, like in 露天風呂付き or 生ビール付き, for instance. Is that right?
(examples pulled from 一休.com)

Interesting. There seems a difference in 付き depending on the meaning. See the explanation in a dictionary below.

(7) 名詞の下に付いて複合語をつくる。連濁により「づき」 となることがある。

(ア)上の語の表すものが示しているようすを表す。
「顔―」「言葉―」「あぶなっかしい手―」

(イ)上の語の表すものにつきそっていること、または付 属していることを表す。
「社長―秘書」「大使館―になる」

(ウ)上の語の表すものが備わっていることを表す。
「一泊二食―」「一〇か月の保証―」「瘤(こぶ)―」

付きとは - 活用形辞書 Weblio辞書

The rendaku seems to occur only on the meaning イ; ～に付いた/付いている. In fact, 社長づき秘書 means 社長に付いている秘書 "a secretary to a president", but 社長つき秘書 sounds like 社長が付いている秘書 "a secretary with a president" to me.

 

[Glenn]

That is interesting. It makes sense that に could have that effect on it, but then there's 気付く, for instance, with a が gone missing (unless it's the velar nasal at work...). And the case with つけ・づけ kind of nullifies that too, since を should come before it. I guess it's just one of those random things. Heh, I don't know.

 

[undrentide]

That is interesting. It makes sense that に could have that effect on it, but then there's 気付く, for instance, with a が gone missing (unless it's the velar nasal at work...). And the case with つけ・づけ kind of nullifies that too, since を should come before it. I guess it's just one of those random things. Heh, I don't know.

I
It does seem to be random in certain combinations.

気付く きづく (to notice, realize)
気付 きづけ、きつけ (c/o)
着付け きつけ (dressing)

 

[Toritoribe]

That is interesting. It makes sense that に could have that effect on it, but then there's 気付く, for instance, with a が gone missing (unless it's the velar nasal at work...). And the case with つけ・づけ kind of nullifies that too, since を should come before it. I guess it's just one of those random things. Heh, I don't know.

気付く is a widely spread compound verb like 怖気づく, 勢いづく. There must be a different mechanism from "a noun + the noun 付き/付け".

And yes, since 付ける is a transitive verb, the noun preceding 付け is always the direct object of 付ける. I think this would be one of the reasons why the rendaku tends to occur more on 付け than 付き.

As for 絵付け[えつけ], there might be a distinguishment from 餌付け[えづけ], jimo.

But, as undrentide-san also wrote, the rendaku indeed sometimes seems to occur at random.

 

[saheki51]

And "付き" is "つき". I think there is no exception.

Apparently, I was wrong. "付き" is not always "つき". Sorry.

 

[Glenn]

It's OK. I've been wrong plenty of times.