This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Easy to Forget?

Oh Boy, looks like it started again...

BZ Japan,

It is people like you, who make my blood boil. If you are considering yourself Japanese, then it shames me to call myself one as well. You are a perfect example of someone in Japan who is clearly an ignorant right-wing politician and want to "deny" the issues in history. No proof you say? Leave Japan, and go to any public library in any other country. You'll find more than enough proof there. I, myself, am a Japanese American, and those are the parts of Japanese history and culture that I am utterly ashamed of. Thank God I received most of my education in the US and learned the truth (rather than the garbage false history I was fed in Japan.) Are you going to tell me next that Japan influenced MOST of Korea's culture (Art, Buddhism, Confucianism, writing system, etc...) when it is a clear fact that the trade route went from CHINA to KOREA to JAPAN. This is another example of "warped" history I was taught there.

Do you think that Korea was better off without being illegally annexed by Japan? Oh, don't forget to mention that many Korean citizens were forced to speak and learn Japanese and adopt Japanese names. Read the young adult book, "When My Name was Keiko" by Linda Sue Park for one account of the incident. Try the many websites on Korean history, and you'll find that your views are gravely mistaken.

The rest of the world sees and knows of the acts committed in Japan as hate crimes (Comfort women, brutal killings, medical experiments, etc...) Don't even say that it only happened in China. It happened in Korea, the Philippines, all over the South Asian Islands and Allied Prisoners of War. Don't forget that Japan also RECENTLY admitted to chemical testing in China as well. Clearly, the nation was wrong, and if you deny these acts, you are no better than a Neo-Nazi claiming Hitler was correct in his views. You don't support Hitler and Germany's atrocities, do you? Yet you fail to acknowledge the ones by Japan, which were more or less the same thing.

Japan annexed Korea illegally going before the world council, after they secretly assassinated Queen Min, the ruling monarch of Korea, to use the country for their own purposes. All raw materials were shipped back to Japan, and practically all rice and agriculture as well. This is why the Koreans were starving. Japanese soldiers killed one of my best friend's (a Korean American) grandfather for protesting the brutal occupation of 1910-1935, and many more were also. If you want some resources of such crimes including the assassination, here you go:

Testimony of a RUSSIAN Soldier:

Wayback Machine

Wow, a site on REAL history, based in JAPAN......read it in English or Japanese, and MANY ARCHIVED PHOTOS OF WAR CRIMES!!!



Would you care to deny these photos? Do you call this lack of evidence? I've talked to many POWs/veterans who suffered in Japan's prison camps. I studied the topic in depth. Don't tell me that Korea "benefitted" mainly from Japan. If you say that, then American really benefitted from the slave trade of the 1600s and on. The Chinese and Irish labour was just so that they could build the "white man's railroad" at the time. Kicking the Native Americans off the land so America could expand was just. Edward the Longshanks was correct in what he did to the Scottish and Irish, to "further" his territory. Yes, I'm sure all these actions were humane and more beneficial.

For those of you who read my previous posts, this is a perfect example of what I stated. Many in Japan either don't want to accept the truth, and rather downplay it, especially when it comes to Korea. Many wills and cannot accept the fact of Korea ever becoming superior to Japan in anything; Korea is seen as a lower-class country...even when the Information Technology, LCD Monitors, Plasma TVs, telecommunications, PCs, cell phones, etc... have equalled or stepped above that of Japan's nowadays. Oh, and need I mention the World Cup? How much slandering did I see on websites stating Korea cheated, no good comments like "Chosenjin," (an impolite way to say Korean,) etc.? Thank God for my friends, family, and others of groups trying to show the truth there in Japan.

>>>Thanks for replying me. But there is no evidence to prove the stories you posted yet. When we discuss crimes, we should discuss on evidence, not propaganda. And yes as you pointed Africa suffered from colonialism. But Korea and Taiwan were totally different. Japan built schools and factories and modernized both. I'm not saying that it's OK to occupy other countries, but I think Koreans should stop exaggerating the dark side and telling a one-sided story. Koreans love to blame everything on us. The name of "The Sea of Japan", the spelling of Korea(not Corea) was due to the Japanese empire<<<

While I agree that Korea does exaggerate some issues and argue about petty things like Korea or Corea and the Sea of Japan, the atrocities are no exaggeration. If you want to know who's really being one-sided, look at yourself, and many others who share your opinion. Who is REALLY being led by propaganda? I was brought up the same way when I once lived in Japan, but thankfully, I learned the TRUTH from the outside. If you say there is a lack of evidence of such things, where exactly are you looking? Of course, you won't find evidence in JAPAN! Why is it that the world has all these resources? Japan is much more well known in the world than Korea is. Thus, Japan would have more of an influence. Why would these events of Korean history be recorded, rather than the Japanese views? The reason is that it is the truth, that's why. Outside countries of the world have no bias towards either country. It is also interesting to note that Japan is trying to build closer relations with China today, and it's a fact that they always held China and it's culture in high regard. Thus, I wonder why they are JUST NOW admitting to their war crimes in China. It's funny how they won't admit to the acts and downplay them in Korea, the Philippines, etc...

Seriously, I can't believe something as this is still happening, especially when we all live in a more educated era. Wake up, and learn from history! Denying it will only make things worse!
Yet, many wonder why North Korea hated Japan so much?

I could go on and on and provide more sources and facts. You go ahead and defend all the atrocities. We, the majority of the world, know the truth, and what really happened. I appreciate your efforts and responses, and you are welcome to post here, but shame on you for defending the "Asian Holocaust". Sieg Heil, right?

While I am again, not calling Japan today evil, there are people like BZ Japan who are misinformed. Hopefully one day, Japan will face up to its actions, educate their people PROPERLY, and truly apologize for the atrocities. Korea/China/Philippines, and other former colonies of Japan, will hopefully stop being stubborn, and be ready to forgive. Only then will this matter be put to rest.
 
I have to say again that just because Japan built up Korea's infrastructure it in no way means that there are two ways of looking at the Japanese occupation, a bad and a good one. It was a bad thing, plain and simple and I know that if it had happened in my country there is no way I would be so forgiving as to say "well, they had some good points too."

If a theif breaks into my home and robs me of everything I have, but in his hurry to leave before the police come forgets his flashlight, I don't say "well I'm really upset that this guy robbed me, but on the other hand I did get a new flashlight out of the deal so maybe he isn't so bad after all." It sounds ridiculous, bu this is exactly what you are expecting Koreans to do. Japan went, uninvited into THEIR country with the intent of enriching Japan at THEIR expense by stealing THEIR natural resources and exploiting THEIR workforce. In the process of doing so they built some railroads and factories that were to be used exclusively for the benefit of the Japanese occupiers. But in 1945 the Allies beat Japan and forced it to get out of Korea and leave behind all of the tools they had used to exploit the country, simply because the factories and railways were too heavy to carry home with them. And you expect the Koreans to be thankful for this?

As to the matter of why Comfort women took so long to come forward, in addition to the reasons mentioned above, it is worth mentioning that Korea was engulfed in a civil war for some years after the end of World war 2, and that the same set of Japanese industrialists who had plundered Korea during the occupation got themselves rich again helping the Americans tear the place apart.
 
Senseiman- I love that flashlight analogy.

The colonization of Africa and China/Korea only benefited the controlling powers to the extent that building up the infrastructure would benefit firstly the occupying power. Very little thought was given to increasing the standard of living or educational resources of the nation enslaved.

This is the double edged sword of colonialism. You need people to help run the colony so you co-op some people by giving them the "benefits" of colonialization. You educate a minute percentage of the population, let them become dependent on you, and begin a patronage system. Then everyone wants to be on your side because if you work with the British, the Frech, the Americans, or the Japanese, you come out on top compaired to your neighbor. You educate others only to the extent they need to work in the factories. You build roads and railways only to the extent that they help the flow of goods out of the colony and back to the occupying nation. The trouble is, onlce you open the door to education, some people start thinking for themselves and realize what a farce this colonial system is. Then you get internal strife, calls for independence and such (Korea had its own partisans fighting the Japanese).

The colonial exploitation of Korea/China/Taiwan and Africa are essentially the same. The only real difference is location. The theory of colony and how they should be run was closely copied by the Japanese.

If the system in Korea was so different from that in Africa, which it wasn't, why were so many people suffering and fighting against the Japanese occupation? If the empire really had done all the things bz_japan claimed it had, why get so upset?
 
The reason why Koreans are so upset about the colonization is due to their little "Sinocentrism". Korea once thought China is the greatest nation on the earth, and Korea was the second while Japan was savage. So they can't stand that the savage nation had occupied them. China invaded Korea countless times and made it a tributary state for about 1000 years. China also disturbed Korean unification. But have you ever heard Koreans demanding an apology from China? And Koreans politicians tried to unify their own people by promoting anti-Japanese feelings. Taiwan, which was treated harsher than Korea, has never demanded an apology or bashed Japan about colonization.

If many Koreans starved during the Japanese occupation, then why the Korean population doubled?
 
Please site a source on your population numbers. The growth rate would have to have been through the roof. I would love to see the Korean census figures (hint hint).

Would it help if they admitted they had been occupied by two savage nations? Both Korea and Taiwan had enough of their own problems to solve (someone mentioned the Korean War, Taiwan has issues with the fall out from China's civil war) before they can take the time to address old issues. And you are probably correct, Korea did have close dealings with China for a very long time. They happened to be physically attached to it. Japan too, for a long time, thought China was the bee's knees. Sinocentric feelings alone are not going to keep Korea from complaining about ancient Chinese dominance. It would be nice if each nation was an independent actor in its own foreign affairs but they are not. This complicates how and when a country gets to demand apologies.

Laslty, nations tend to get worked up over things that happened within living memory. The pain is still fresh. Korea is not mad at China of an occupation 1000 years ago because enough people feel it is not important anymore. If Japan is "lucky" they can hold off apologizing for another 50 years and anyone touched by the occupation will be, conveniently enough, dead.

Dead men tell no tales.
 
I have to agree with mandylion that it must be a little more than a sense of sinocentrism that makes Koreans upset about the Japanese occupation. I have no idea what Korean attitudes are to China, but your argument seems to have switched from "Japanese occupation was good for Korea" to "Koreans should be more mad at China" without any acknowledgement that perhaps the Koreans have some legitimate greivances against Japan for the occupation.

It seems common sensical that whether or not your country is being occupied by a savage or civilized bunch of foreigners isn't going to change your views much on it. The Iraqis today don't seem to be to impressed that they have the honor of being occupied by the world's wealthiest nation as opposed to some other country with lesser status. All they know is that a bunch of foreigners are running around telling them what to do and occasionally shooting them and they don't like that. I'm sure the Koreans must have felt the same way during the Japanese occupation.

If Taiwan was much worse treated by Japan than Korea but hasn't demanded an apology, it seems to me the most sensible way of looking at it is that the Taiwanese are being too kind to Japan, not that the Koreans are complaining too much.
 
I also want to post some points here:

1) "Asian countries who hate Japan" means only three countries among many Asian countries: China, North and South Korea.

Do people mention "Asia" know what other countries' impression of Japan in WW2?
One example I can give is Indonesia - at their independence ceremony, they raise a national flag by three people: an Indonesian man, an Indonesian woman.....and, A man disguised as a Japanese soldier. Also, their independence year is 2005 - which is the Imperial calendar. Those represent they are thankful to Japan who helped Indonesian independence against the Netherlands.

2) Why are those still issue?
Japan and South Korea had an agreement in the 1960s in which
Japan has given up all assets in Korea (which value was bigger than the "compensation" amount Koreans insisted on) and also gave economic aids (also a huge amount - during the time Japan was still poor). South Korean Government also agreed that everything in the past is settled by it. Thus, even if Japan did all wrong things, which I don't totally deny, it has been completely settled off. It is still an issue on the Korean side because the Korean government still do not teach Koreans about this.
Re North Koreans - South Koreans then insisted they are the only legitimate government in the peninsula and received ALL money to compensate for the "entire peninsula."
Therefore, it's now an issue between South/North Koreans. Japan is not responsible for it as they have had to agree to the South Korean government that the North Korean government is not a "real one." This agreement is still good even today.
Also, what they referred to as "abductees by Japanese troops" had a chance to return to their home country by vessels the Japanese government arranged and paid for... I still wonder why abducted people who still blame the Japanese government have chosen to stay in Japan.

Between China/Japan - Nanjing massacre is not true as far as I checked. A college professor Shudo Higashinakano has proved this was propaganda by the Chinese communist party - since his thesis has been revealed, there is no new thesis proving it happened.
However, even if the rampage did happen, Japan paid and has given up a relationship with Taiwan in the 1960s to have the Chinese government agree that every issue in the past has been settled. So it's also over now. Chinese insist it's not, especially when the Communist Party is in a political crisis or financially poor.

3) Japanese force's "rampage", comfort women and war reparation - please refer to this website.
http://www.jiyuu-shikan.org/e/index.html
 
Ken- Thanks for your post and the link. I'll make some time to go over them.

I just have time to ask one question; do you have a way of getting the text of Mao's speech on protracted warfare mentioned on the link page? The author contends that because Nanjing wasn't mentioned, it basically must not have been that important/happened. I will have to go back over my Chinese history of that period, but I have a hunch Mao might have been more concerned with playing the Nationalists and the Japanese, and I would like to see the tone of this reference. Six months in war torn China is not as long as it seems to us folks used to instant messanger and short attention spans ---
 
Hi Mandylion,

Sorry, I don't understand exactly which one, but I sure know the best bet is to send an email to the website's operator.
They will reply to most questions, and I think they have the whole sentences of the speech.
 
BZ, I think you need your facts straightened out ..

First, Korea was part of Japan during WWII!
Click to expand...

Hardly by choice as pointed out by others ..


And japan pre-meiji had universal literay right?

The true banning ocurred in the 40's when japan saw that resistance wasn't going to be swept under the carpet .. they resorted to this in the hope that it would integrate Korea faster and thus provide more man-power (among other things).

And the most important thing is the fact that Japan modernized Korea. Seoul university, Seoul station , Kyougi railroad and other infrastructures were built by Japanese. But Koreans tend to minimize those bright side and overexagerate the bad one
Click to expand...

Read more from unbiased sources.

The policy was to turn Korea into a cheap labour source by capping education at the primary (or was it middle school?) level .. educate them but only enough to do a better job for the japan war machine.

The only way to attend a high school was to attend the japanese education system, as any other education institution was quickly shut down by the japanese.


The reason why Koreans are over-represented in those sorts of areas, according to academic studies, is the japanese education system.

japanese schools teach that (basically) japan did nothing wrong. To ask a Korean to accept such is similar to asking a jew to join the hitler youth.

Therefore Koreans had to build their own schools, without any support from the goverment (and quite a bit of hinderance), in order to gain a proper education.

But japanese universities refuse to recognise schools that don't teach the goverment curriculum, so therefore nobody attending a Korean run school could go to university.

Koreans built their own universities, again with only their own means. But again the problem is that white-collar jobs are not accessible to those who graduate from non-goverment endorsed universities.

The end result is that Koreans either accept that they're a lower human form or get effectively barred from white-collar jobs, which is why Koreans are concentrated in such niche industries as the pachinko parlour.

Oh, and by the way, japanese had a racist view long before the end of the WW2 and "took some lands in Japan illegaly". You may also like to note that the places where Koreans are concentrated in were places like industrial waste dumps initially.


Perhaps when japan "teach both bright and dark sides of Japanese occupation", eh?

 
Statistica

Japan, in WWII killed thousand of Chinese and Koreans... but now is a statistic, not?
 
You know, I'm not a history buff, and I don't know much about Japanese/Korean relationships, however, I do know this:

Atrocity happens in this world to every race, every country, every people. That is an undeniable fact. However, to expect people to rid themselves of human emotion when asking them to forget the atrocities done to their ancestors.

It would be a perfect world if we all can forgive and forget. However, it is not that easy. As a person who has friends and family who are survivors of the Holocaust and survivors of pre-Civil rights America, I believe that in order not to repeat our past we must remember and learn from it.

To ask someone to stop "complaining" as you put it, about the Holocaust or slavery or Japanese internment camps or the Japanese POW camps is just plain wrong, especially when the rammifications of these atrocities are still seen in today's society, and still affect those "unfortunates" decendants in a very negative way.

However, I agree with the person who said that Korea needs to teach both the good and the bad when it comes to history, and not just the bad. History should be taught in whole. Not just the parts we like.
 
And now the Chinese are capable of invading japan, and make japan another Chinese's "colony of people's Liberation Army".
 
I apologize Soviet Soldier, but please back up your comments with some reliable sources or your posts will just look like you are just being a troll.
 
and now chineses are capable of invading japan, and make japan as another Chinese's "colony of people's Liberation Army"
Click to expand...

Nonsense. First, with the American back-up and its self-defense force, Japan will not fall into any country's colony. Second, China is too busy preparing for the Olympics. China doesn't even care about the Taiwanese election as much as before.
 
Jean-Francois said:
China doesn't even care about the Taiwanese election as much as before.
Click to expand...
Are you sure about this? There was quite some uproar in the PRC esp. about the referendum (which failed). The gouvernment seemed a bit contained in the direct run-up to the election, but the people definitely are still more concerned with Taiwan than with the Olympics.
 
Yes, I am sure they care about the Beijing Olympics more than this particular Taiwanese election which was almost a tie between President Chen and KMT. When it is a tie, it is a lose lose situation which means almost 50% of the Taiwanese aren't so sure about their policy toward China any more.
 
When I say lose-lose situation, I mean neither President Chen nor KMT really wins.
 
Sorry, I keep posting ...

Why does Communist China care so much about the Olympics? Well... I think the majority of Chinese people know that they had followed the wrong path into Communism but they don't want to admit it. Thus, among all areas with high Chinese population (Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Malaysia, Toronto, Vancouver...), Chinese from PRC are always looked down. (Chinese people is a compilcated race and I don't have time to elaborate their differences).

Anyway, for the communist government, it is very important to redeem themselves, and show other Chinese people and the rest of the world that the Chinese government can be useful. Silly as it may sound, hosting the Olympic is considered as one of the useful things to do, despite the deficits incurred.
 
Well, although I agree that Chinese in general are proud of hosting the Games, I'm pretty sure the people are not so concerned with the Olympics at the moment. In a Chinese forum I participate in the activity regarding the Olympic Games is nil, but Taiwanese issues are discussed a lot.

BTW, my Chinese friends here in Germany don't talk a lot about either issue. Taiwan is too hot a topic (might lead to arguments) & Olympics just don't matter very much.
 
They are concerned about the Olympics at the moment! Last week the media in HK and China were still discussing who would write up the olympic song. It was because of the assassination then the Taiwanese election gains the spotlight again.

And yes, China condemns Taiwan, as usual. China threats, uses military practise, experiments hi-tech weapons, more hi-tech weapons... These are old news and they are getting more and more annoying. Taiwanese people already get used to it. It is just a tactic to shake up the Taiwanese economy. (ie If Taiwanese people think there maybe a war in the near future, consumers lose confindence and stops buying and starts saving. Investors move their capital...) But too bad, Taiwanese people already get used to these kinds of threats and these tactics don't work as well as in 1996.

For the Chinese forum you went to, do you think is it possible that there are a lot of communist patriots who need to relieve their frustration (i.e. everyone knows Communist China is doing **** since its establishment, but it's just too painful to admit it). If the answer is yes, then they will always talk about Taiwan, Japan and U.S. more than anything else. There are a lot of unempolyed, angry and jealous people on the internet in mainland. But will the communist government ever listen to their opinions? Dream on!

Finally, the Chinese government nowadays (tyrannical as it still is) is smart enough to wait for the Taiwanese to unite with mainland voluntarily.
 
Do I actually have to post a backup comment by providing how many military army and weapons does Chinese has? Well, in matter of fact I could if you don't know the number of PLA and enough weapon technology to turn japan into sea of fire. And I doubt US's military will eventually pull out from japan, which China could turn their intension on the island.
 
Soviet Soldier said:
Do I actually have to post a backup comment by providing how many military army and weapons does Chinese has?
Click to expand...

If you are going to make statements that China has the intention of invading Japan, then yes, I would say you do. If you don't want to be taken seriously, then no, you can skip it.

It is not just about numbers. I could find reliable numbers about the Chinese military. But you also need to take into account current trends in Chinese politics and policy, do a little political science work and make responsible conclusions based on all the evidence - not just arms numbers.

As it is, I would imagine many Chinese people would object to your statements. Making such claims with nothing to support them can rub people the wrong way...

China can't invade Taiwan let alone Japan. Why would China want to turn Japan into a sea of fire? Invade for what purpose? If China is looking for an economic gain, how is turning the world against China going to improve their market situation? Despite what people like to think, the communist regime has not been expansionist. You saw them intervene in Korean War in part because they felt the UN would not stop at the border and a communist state was at risk. China did not stay in N. Korea after the war. They very well could have done so. China did not aid the North in the Vietnam war in an overt way (like in Korea) and they did not try and absorb regional nations like the Soviet Union. Communist powers in China have fought to preserve what they feel/felt are ideological or important strategic assets but you can hardly call China an expansionist power.

That is what you are saying when you state that China will turn Japan into a sea of fire and invade. I would ask you again for what purpose? You are making claims that are so far outside the actions and methodology of the communist regime in China that yes, if you want serious people to take you seriously, you need to provide references (the more mainstream the better - the New York Times, Washington Post, the Gaurdian, the Economist, any academic journal you care to provide).

I'm not trying to slap you down. I really am interested in what you have to say, but we should never accept just anything we read.
 

Yes, it is not about numbers, but they have ICBM to use on Japan without losing a single PLA soldier. The current Chinese people's government isn't really a fan of Japan, and President Hu Jintao refused to meet Japanese prime minister Koizumi Junichiro just a month ago. By the way, the Chinese have military technology, which can be compared to the current U.S.'s weapon technology, plus their number of soldiers are pure madness.

As it is, I would imagine many Chinese people would object to your statements. Making such claims with nothing to support them can rub people the wrong way...
Click to expand...

You have no idea just how many people are protesting the People's government just outside of the people's government building in Beijing. These people are protesting why the government is not trying to shoot a missile on Japan or anything.
The Chinese want full blood revenge on Japan. A few months ago, when Japanese students visited the universal in Xian province, they took off their clothes with cups blocking their private parts and said they want peace. This huge number of Chinese college students got pissed, and they protested against Japanese students. Luckily, the Japanese students were safely escorted back to the airport. You see, you might meet some Chinese people who want to make friends with Japanese, but at the same time, there are greater numbers of Chinese who want to shoot Japanese from their sight.

China can invade Taiwan now. They are just being halted because Americans could interfere with this Taiwan issue. And the Chinese or US surely doesn't want to have a war over this issue. By the way, Chinese soldiers did not stay in North Korea after the non-aggression pact of the Korean war, because

1) Chinese only helped North Korea because Americans and NATO forces were pretty closed to China's border when the NATO/US forces pulled North Koreans from the south. China was there to help North Korea at the same time to secure their border from positive offence from NATO/US forces. Chinese surely didn't stay in North Korea because Mao was not interested in having his PLA on his allies soil. At the same time, he did not wish to absorb his fellow communist country into China.

2) If the Chinese PLA ever stayed in North Korea, there could've been a possible threat from North Korea. And the Chinese learned that North Korea is a formidable opponent when they ever declared war on North Korea.

Chinese did not involve in the Vietnam war because they were smart enough not to. Like the Soviet Union, China was not really interested in involving a war that the US is involved in, and they would watch what happens next just like the Soviets did. China did give weapons supplies to the North Vietnamese, but that was about it.


For what purpose? I was pointing out which it could be possible. I don't really care if serious people care or don't give a jack about it. I just felt like sharing my view with other people.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Easy shoes
Replies
1
Views
4K
lexico
Work from home, they said. In Japan, it’s not so easy.
Replies
0
Views
1K
Seiko
News Chinese drivers seek easy path to international driver's licenses in Japan
Replies
7
Views
658
salyavin
News Gunma leads relocation rankings for easy Tokyo access
Replies
0
Views
121
thomas
Newsfeed Sanae Takaichi Wants to Make Japan Great Again. It Won’t Be Easy.
Replies
0
Views
12
NewsBot
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…