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Easy to Forget?

kinjo

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To Hanada Tattsu:

I see that you are from the US as well. Here is a message for you: Why are you so proud of Japan? Judging by your profile, you are one of those anime or video game otaku. Do you wish to be Japanese also? I cannot believe you base all your opinions about Japan and life on such things. I'm a big fan of Italian food, but would I base my opinions and life about Italy just because I am a fan of their food? Certainly not! There are far more aspects than just anime and video games, and those that can separate themselves from their hobbies in life and opinion are far more educated.

Dai Nihon, Great Japan you say? I wonder if you are even aware of the sacrifice of your service men and women. Many died by the hands of the Japanese, in an inhumane manner. I hope you know that you disdain those who sacrficed their lives, and servicemen like me who protect your freedom day by day, so you can live in peace in the US. Also, keep in mind that it doesn't matter how much you appreciate, love, and learn about Japan; the Japanese will never accept you as one of them, and you will always be a gaijin.

As an American, who lived in both Japan and Korea for quite some time, please allow me to share my viewpoints. What is interesting here, is the fact that most people don't regard the Japanese colonizations as a really terrible ordeal. They do not believe it was as bad as the Holocaust which happened in Europe, due to the media influence of the West. The Western World knows almost nothing about what truly happened in Asia at that period. Those who think that the Colonization is a "ho-hum yeah it was bad, but let's move on" is radically misinformed.

Firstly, Japan was responsible for the deaths of over 15 million people, almost three times the amount of people that perished in the Holocaust. This not only included the people of the Japanese conquered territories, but also the Prisoners of War. The inhumane acts were just as terrible if not worse than those committed by the Nazis: Medical experiments, massive murder, beheading for sport, use of comfort women, etc...Germany got what it deserved, and the Nazi criminals of war were tried and hanged at Nuremberg.

Many American, Eurpean, Austrailian, Asian, and other prisoners of war were treated inhumanely. To this day, many of the veterans who were POWs in the Japanese camps will forever hate Japanese and never forgive them. I spoke with quite a number of veterans, and in some sense, I do not blame them. Japanese soldiers, under order of their commanders, killed POWs for spite. They loved to practice cutting heads with their swords, and their favorite targets were POWs of a tall stature. Also favored for "targets" were red heads, blondes, and anything other characteristic that was deemed "foreign". Very little, if any, food were given to POWs. They were also labored to death, forced to endure torture, all for the amusement of the Japanese.

At the end of the war, what punishment did Japan receive? Not much really. Many were allowed to return to their lives without getting tried, and a lot of countries just didn't care enough to make this a full matter; India dismissed the incident saying nothing really happened. Thus, Emperor Hirohito, though stripped of power, was not really charged with war crimes, which is like Hitler being pardoned for the Holocaust.

The fact of the matter is that Japan as a nation has never repented to those it has wronged. Actions speak louder than words; just simply saying "I'm sorry" doesn't mean one repents. If Japan really was regretful of it's past, would it have allowed history books to cover up issues such as comfort women, the Rape of Nanjing, the science experiments on human beings, etc...? Wouldn't the nation think twice about paying tribute to war criminals at the Yasakuni Shrine? One cannot help but notice these are RECENT incidents.

Does Germany censor anything about Hitler and the Holocaust? Do they pay respects to war criminals? Are human rights violations against foreigner tolerated? Ask any German citizen today, and he/she will flatly state that their country has committed unforgivable attrocities during that era.
Thus it is easier for the Jews to forgive and forget the incident, than those who were conquered by the Japanese. It also doesn't help that the Western world and its media have only concentrated on the European aspects of WWII. Asia and the incidents there were clearly undershadowed.

Why do you believe it is mostly Korea's fault for not forgiving Japan? Certainly through the actions, Japan has never repented. Why is such human rights violation being allowed against Koreans after the North Korean kidnapping incidents: threatening phone calls, screaming at, physical abuser, etc...
I can assure you that though there is racism in Korea against Japanese, cases against human rights violations like those occuring in Japan seldom take place. I can provide a lot of articles detailing the human rights violations against Koreans (also Americans and any other gaijin...or to be more polite...gaikokujin....yeah whatever) in Japan. How many can you provide me with such human rights violation incidents against Japanese and other foreign groups in Korea?

Though I believe that there are faults both of Japan and Korea, placing most of the blame on Korea is not the answer. Japan has clearly wronged many nations as well as their POWs
Yes, I agree that the nations under Japanese occupation (namely Korea and China) can be a hard hearted when it comes to forgiving, but people of these nations have a valid reason to complain. Japan may have apologized in words, but definitely not through actions...as Germany has done. What is also interesting is that Japan blames its Asian neighbors for being stubborn about the past mistakes. However, when it was wronged by North Korea on the issues of Japanese citizens being kidnapped, Japan is the one being stubborn to forgive.

Take a look at the information and pictures of the following websites:

http://www.jca.ax.apc.org/JWRC/exhibit/Index.HTM
http://www.hatejapan.com/
http://www.arthurhu.com/index/genocide.htm
http://www.codoh.com/trials/trijapan.html

Is this something easily forgivable? Are there any real differences between those pictures at the second website, and those taken at the concentration camps in Europe? Was justice really served upon Japan? It clearly seems not.

Yet it seems Japan constantly reminds the world of their wrongdoings in history, and are quick to point the finger, IE the atomic bombs dropped at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Also, it is also interesting is that Japan blames its Asian neighbors for being stubborn about the past mistakes. However, when it was wronged by North Korea on the issue of kidnapping Japanese citizens, Japan is the one being stubborn to forgive. No country is free of wrongdoings, but it becomes an issue when it will not admit to them.

While these were horrible acts, it pales in comparison to the number of atrocities the whole Empire of Japan committed during its occupation in Asia. Japan wants to forget and move on when it refers to its past actions. But it will not forgive and will be quick to point the wrongs of other nations and their histories.
 

noyhauser

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Senseiman... you want to take this one or shall I?
(I don't know if I can hold myself much longer)
 

jeisan

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stop it, stop whining! it seems you have some vendetta agaisnt japan. if thats the case then a forum geared towards japan is not the palce for you. go hang out in the hatejapan forums and ***** over there about how much japan sucks. we dont wanna hear it.
 

kinjo

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Congratulations...

I'm not whining, but rather trying to clear up a few points, addressed in postings before. Someone posted insensitive remarks, and I felt quite compelled to respond. If you didn't want to hear it, why not just ignore my posting than respond? After all, this is a forum, and we have that freedom of speech to voice opinions (mind you won by service men and women you all disdain.)

I have no resent towards the present day Japan and it's people. If you'd rather turn a blind eye towards what happened in history, you might as well say Sieg Heil! or White Power! Would you have said the same to a Holocaust survivor making such points? How about African slaves, especially in 19th century America? No, it seems you agree that human rights are only for those not wronged by the Japanese. Congratulations, on showing your ignorance on posting. Thank you for trying to deny history, you identified yourself as a Japanophile who is racist. "I don't want to hear it....Japan is nothing but good." Talk about brainwashing! Please...get a life and start reading books and enlightening your mind rather than just sitting their watching anime and playing video games. Maybe then you'll realize there's more to life, and people who actually try to make a difference in the world. If you haven't received higher education yet, maybe you'll learn then. If not, I pity you.

Don't tell me that I have some resent against Japan. I am American, but here is the twist: I am also of Japanese descent, a sansei if you will. I don't support anything that Japan has done prior to modern days, (nor any other acts of human rights violations committed by other nations.) My grandparents and parents went through the ordeal of the internment camps, so I know quite a bit on the topic. However, the difference in this story is that the US paid retributions and admitted it was wrong for doing so. I don't toIerate any form of human rights violations, especially when it is being covered up. I certainly hope that Japan will wisen up and apologize, in actions; Thus, easing tensions between the countries in Asia and jointly focusing on the North Korean Nuclear crisis.
 
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jeisan

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my point was posting anti-japan marks on a pro-japan board wont get you very far. why does liking japan mean that we disdain the servicemen/women? i dont understand that at all. you make these broad generalizations, accusing us of things without even knowing us. yet you call me ignorant.

actually yes i would have said the same thing to a holocaust survivor, or any african american or anyone whining about what happened to whatever people 50+ years ago. quite frankly i am tired of this. its annoying to hear people on such campaigns for things that didnt even happen to them, "well X country did (insert horrible thing here) to my people, way back when, so i think im entitled to an apology and finacial compensation." well thats wrong, the people it happned to are completely in the right but anyone else didnt suffer, they never had to go through anything, so they are just a bunch of whiners trying to get something for nothing. japan never did anything to you, so why have such an attitude towards it. quit living in the past, you cant change anything there, the present is now, deal with it.

the majority of the members on this board, myself included, know all about japan's horrible past and its stubborness in making amends. i dont know why you think we dont, maybe you just went assuming again. but alas the japan of the past is dead, and im not cencerned about it. i would also like you to define how im a racist, who im rascist against and how i showed you this, because its beyond me how you came to that conclusion. another thing im more interested in china and vietnam than japan, and watch alot more kung fu movies than anime. you think im uneducated, yet i study language and read 2300+ page books about chinese history on my own, besides attending tech school.

i never told you that you resented japan, just that it seemed so. sure your parents grandparents experienced some bad stuff but it by no means makes you an expert. my grandparents had to escape nazi germany, and on my other side my family is native american, who got screwed over by the US government all the time. so we both have families with violated pasts in them. but i dont claim to know alot about human rights violations because of that.

i agree japan needs to do something to make friends and allies with its neighboring countries, but the likelyhood of the matter is that its not gonna happen any time soon. japan is a proud country and apologizing would hurt its pride. there are many many things that need to be reformed in japan, and hopefully theyll be worked out one day.
 
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kinjo

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Misunderstandings of intent

"i agree japan needs to do something to make friends and allies with its neighboring countries, but the likelyhood of the matter is that its not gonna happen any time soon. japan is a proud country and apologizing would hurt its pride. there are many many things that need to be reformed in japan, and hopefully theyll be worked out one day."

If you agree with that point, then what exactly is the problem? That was the message I was trying to get across. For some reason your first post sounded as though you didn't care or have any knowledge of the situation. I posted to this forum, for the very reason that Korea was being blamed for everything. My remarks were not meant to be read as anti-Japanese but rather state facts, and offer counter thoughts. I was just trying to offer the viewpoint from the other side of the coin.

I forgot to mention I did in-depth studies on the topic. I also hold a Masters in History and Ethics, and I apologize if it sounded as though I was claiming "authority" on just being a descendant of a human rights violation victims.

And about just living in the present...how do we learn to live better? By studying our history, and learning from our mistakes. It's pretty easy to say "Shut up and live in the present" and be tired of all the whining when you are accepted in America as the European descent majority. It is easy to say "I'm sick of hearing all this" when one has never faced discrimination or inhumane acts. But how about those who have...isn't it better for us to try to solve the matter than just tell these people to "shut up and live in the problem." The best way to "shut these people up" is to really learn from history and educate. There are radical groups who want financial compensation, and I even believe that if you personally weren't wronged, it is going too far. But you must realize that a lot of people out there are not radicals, and want justice only through educating, and making life in the present better by improving relations.

As for me, and many other Asian Americans, we're about 95% of the time seen as foreigners who cannot speak perfect English. I'm not accepted in America or in Asia. It's tough not being descended from a white European background. Believe me, you would want to seek justice if you were a minority. How often do Asians get screwed in representation in America. But I won't open that can of worms, since it's another matter.

The fact of the matter here is that there was a misunderstanding. I posted not to whine or complain, but rather to educate a certain poster blaming more of everything on Korea. I assumed too much on the basis of your rant posting, and I apologize for misjugding you. I also apologize for calling you a racist, but please realize, that the tone of your post is what I experienced by racists in the past. Again I misjudged you. Perhaps if you worded your rant a little better than just, "Go Away, we don't want you bitching here, you anti-Japan bastard" this could all have been avoided.
 

jeisan

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if you would read my first reply again, you would see that i said it seemed you were anti-japan, and if that was so, then this forum isnt such a good place to post. then proceeded to direct you to a place where you could find like-minded people who would love to hear you. because, again if that was the case we really dont wanna hear it, there doesnt need to be any negitivity here. your original message came off as a rant with negitive connotatons. the fact you double posted made it seem more so. referenceing hatejapan.com didnt help either. i mistook your post for the japan hating spam that we sometimes receive on this forum, which i would give the same response. i apologize for that.

live in the present, remember the past. if these horrible things are still going on then no, im not going to say "live in the problem". but once their done and over with like the rape of nanking, theres nothing anyone, no matter how powerful, can do to right that situation. even if the japanese dont know/remember the rest of the world does. so we have to learn from what happened, and try our damnedest not to let it happen again. i want these people to get on with their lives and be happy, not spending all their time thinking about how their ancestors were wronged. i believe some of the fault in this particular situation lies in americas hands as well as the rest of the allies for not punishing the japanese, having trials for their war criminals or making them have to make any repairations back in the war first ended, as they did with germany. if it had all been said and done then, there wouldnt be such a problem now.
 

Mandylion

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Just want to throw in a quick thought; yes, nothing will make Nanjing go away, but a point raised by a university professor a few years ago in one of my classes (we were talking about the same thing) was that apology means different things to different people.
When things go wrong with a bank in Japan, it is the CEO you see apologizing in public and bowing before the media. This is a big deal. It is not some statement read from some PR firm as happens in other cultures.
The fact that Nanjing happened before most of the posters on this forum were born does not take away the need many people feel for an apology. Yes, it won't be a magic cure, but it a step many see as necessary for healing. Ancestors are also quite important in many cultures and East Asia is no exception. For many, especially older folks, it is quite important what happened to their ancestors, or in some cases relatives, and how they died (it still does today, but that is off topic).
We need to remember that Nanjing happened in living memory. We are not talking about the Peloponnesian Wars here. To many people the pain is still quite immediate and personal. It does seem quite callous that Japan refuses to apologize (In part this has to do with the can of worms it would open for paying reparations). Yasukini is a different matter all together, which only makes things more complex.
I agree, jeisan, it would be nice if people could just move forward. But victims have a right to try and heal the way they wish to heal (not that I am saying you are trying to deny them that right). If that means an apology, so be it.
 

jeisan

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sure japan should apologize, i totally agree, but i dont really think they will anytime soon. i dont beleive that japan should have to pay anyone any money to the reletives of any victim. like i said before just because a persons mother/father/grandmother/grandfather/uncle/aunt was a victim does not entitle them to anything. its like saying because my dad got hurt on the job and gets workmans comp. i should too. makes no sense
 

Mandylion

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But the key is your dad would get workmans comp, so any loss in productivity, assets, future prospects for economic or personal development are asaged/compensated. The workmans comp allows you to adapt or even conitune your life without feeling the impact from the problems your dad went through.

Paying for damage from war is to achieve something similar. But when compensation is not given, it can impact the wives, husbands, sons, daughters, even other generations, of the vicitms. Just like if your dad hadn't gotten workmans comp, you might have to, say, drop out of high school to go to work, thus possibly impacting your college career ad future standard of living for the rest of your life.

I am not aware of any payments made for the destruction at Nanjing (for example) and only recent heard rumors of some peanuts payment to comfort women. If Japan paid something, it is not like the are getting stuck with the bill twice (like if you also got paid workmans comp for your dads accident). They are paying an outstanding debt. Certianly they can't pay for the entire lost productivity of the past 50 years. It is imposible to calculate that. But it is not unreasonable to ask for something.

In more psychological terms, an apology is considered by many to be a big portion of the total reparations package.
 

jeisan

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i see your point, but another difference is that my example has to do with a job and not a war. there is a major difference between the two. the people will ask for millions if not billions of dollars and with japans bad economy i doubt they could foot the bill, they need to get themselves on track first. also i beleive that japan has the attitude of "i havent had to apologize for 58 years, why should i have to do it now?" i just dont think throwing money at a problem is a real solution, or that money will truely help them deal with how their parents/grandparents suffered. i am only talking about the families of victims, not the victims themselves.
 

Mandylion

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I agree that one example is about war and one is about a job, but I think the concepts are essentially the same; compensation and support for damages inflicted or sustained from one party onto another, or while under the care of a parent organization/group.

I also agree that Japan couldn't afford it, and I also see that as one of the big problems behind the apology issue. If you admit fault, how can you avoid paying damages? It is a big sticking point. There would need to be some agreement on the governmental level that trillions in compensation won't follow an apology. Just as an aside, I think compensation could take forms other than cold hard cash. Lowering of trade restrictions, fostering imports, diplomatic concessions.
 

jeisan

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yeah there is alot they could do if they only put some effort into it. at least get it the ball rolling and start talking to korea and china. but do you think they would be willing to negociate with japan?
 

noyhauser

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Well I guess its time I weigh in on the issue. I窶冦 surprised at the virulence of 窶徼he Watcher窶冱窶 attack. I窶冦 not saying its unwelcome, but it invokes some powerful statements. I have never trotted out my credentials in any argument in here, but since watcher did so almost immediately (which is dismaying to say the least) to increase his argument窶冱 credibility I guess I will do so as well. I hold Honors in Politics at Queens University, and in the near future hopefully I will be able to go the London School of Economics for a Masters or (if Allah would so please) a PhD at Oxford. I am also about to publish several articles on security and defence.. I don窶冲 pretend I am the ultimate moral authority on things though, because I believe that anybody can argue a valid point, if well thought through. . I窶冦 sure senseiman hasn窶冲 got the qualifications I have, but he sure as hell can make me rethink my arguments whenever we argue. I think a lot of people will be surprised at the line I am taking after reading a lot of my other posts.

Well where to start? I guess I will start with the assertion that Japan is a morally corrupt nation because it committed atrocities nearly 60 years ago. What nation hasn窶冲? The US dropped two atomic weapons and several hundred thousand tons of Incendiary weapons all over Japan in very questionable legal circumstances. What about the US窶冱 support for the Chang Kai Shek, General Diem, Pinochet or Sygman Rhee regimes? Millions more died because the US pushed foreign policies during the cold war that institutionalized fear to control countries for its own end. You speak about the Great atrocities committed by the Japanese in Korea, what about the Kwanju massacre in 1980 where the Park Chung-hee government (who was supported by the US government and may have even received logistical support from the US army) killed 2000 protestors against his government. What about European colonialism? Or even Canadian colonialism over the native Indians who live in poverty all across this country. Hell the Chinese Communist Party killed 30 million people in the great leap forward in 1960. I doubt is one nation without bad blood stained across its hands. Does this make what Japan committed in the 1930s any better? No, not in the least. But does set a better moral context to judge Japan窶冱 actions ? Yes I believe it does.

I think your analysis of Japanese history is very narrow and skewed, enough so that it biases your statements. I think you have made no attempt to examine Japanese culture critically, and you have resorted stringing together a bunch of events and statements, even rearranging them to support your arguments as you see fit. Well here is another view of history, which is a bit more balanced.
Ever since the Edo Period Japanese governments have attempted to isolate Japanese culture from outside influence. Admiral Perry actually did a service for that policy by showing the Japanese that they needed to accept some Foreign innovations to keep control of their own nation. Although the Japanese were able to modernize their industries and technology all across their nation, the Meiji did little to modernize cultural perceptions of the Japanese. Since the Japanese were able to keep foreign powers out of their nation the cultural underpinnings of their society did not disappear. As a result the Japan maintained its 16th Century Bushido culture into the 1940s. They were essentially a feudal society with the technological capability to wreak massive destrution. Japanese didn窶冲 accept the idea of surrender during the Second World War. It窶冱 a plain fact. Surrender was dishonorable, and therefore people who did surrender were nor accorded the same rights as was proposed in the Geneva Convention. How many Japanese threw themselves off cliffs in Saipan instead of capture, ran headlong into a machinegun pit with nothing but a sword or a grenade or aimed their airplanes into the decks of American ships? Japanese didn窶冲 understand their actions as atrocities; they understood them as what should be done as their culture dictated. I have less sympathy for the Nazi holocaust, a country which had developed much of modern philosophical thought that we use today (Goethe, Hegel, Kant and so many others) knew what they were doing was morally wrong.

Also yes Japanese were the cause of 15 million casualties, but by the way you frame those casualties, Germany should be on the hook for 40 Million Plus, rather than seven million Jews. You are counting all the casualties that were caused by war in the Pacific war. The Japanese were occupying powers fighting a guerrilla war across the China, and used violent repression to coerce China. Also you just dump the blame completely on Japan窶冱 shoulders on who started the war without an afterthought. Although I would agree that Japan did initiate the conflict, the US did have some blame for setting up an atmosphere where the Japanese would feel forced to react militarily. They almost expected war with Japan, and in the early 1922 used espionage to end the Anglo Japanese entende. They also devised strategies for defeating Japan in the 1920s (plan Orange). Just dumping the responsibility for ALL casualties on Japan is really unfair.
The defeat in WW2 changed much in Japan. They Unconditionally surrendered... IT was almost unacceptable for most people. It was an utter shock that Japan was in the wrong. I think Germany had a far less traumatic experience, as it had been defeated before in WW1. For the first time, Japan was truly opened up to world culture. Having a massive foreign occupation force almost compels a nation to open up its culture. Almost immediately, new ideas were implanted and spread across the nation. Examples include the rise of the Japanese Communist Party and, even more surprisingly, a very strong pacifist movement that continues to influence Japanese government policy today. Japanese are increasingly becoming more and more worldly. I remembere a incident where an old lady, after hearing I study politics in Canada, begged me to go to my country and make sure that the Kyoto Protocol was ratified here. I窶囘 say that窶冱 a hell of an improvement over 60 years ago. Watcher, if you are right Japanese got off easy on their atrocities窶ヲ then so did Germany. 窶廛e-nazification窶 was a sham, absolutely full of holes. Pretty well it was based on questionnaires which people had to return, which were easily lied upon. Only 1,700 individuals were classified as 窶徇ajor offenders窶 in American Zones, but not one was found in the British and less than a 100 in the French zone. Any trials that did occur often had the defendant supported by their families and friends. But most of these never even got punished because the regime was scrapped by 1947. War leaders both in Germany and in Japan were tried and convicted for their crimes, in the Nuremburg and Tokyo trials. And if you think the Emperor could be put on trial窶ヲ think again. If people in Japan were willing to die for him in war, more than enough people could orchestrate a cover-up for him in court.
And now look at the rise of Neo Nazi punks across Germany. De-nazification really worked well didn窶冲 it? Its about the same as many in Japan who want to remilitarize the Japanese armed forces, they are in a minority, with the majority supporting otherwise. I窶囘 say that Japan underwent an even more grievous transformation with the US removing the Emperor as a deity. It stripped away any sort of illusion that the Japanese was 窶彡hosen race窶? Japanese had to reconceptualise who they were. But there were parts of Japanese culture that still remain very strong.
One of the most important was the continued sense of social responsibility individuals had to the collective. The Japanese still believe that each person has to work his hardest to make the society a better place. But it is decreasing based on the cultural drift between older generations and younger ones. Look at the unbelievable pressure young students put on shoulders to succeed, or the 80+hour workweek some people endure. It is one of the driving forces behind the Economic miracle that occurred in the second half of the 20th century. There is also a strong sentiment in Japan for ancestor worship. Yes it is true that the Yasakuni shrine does have some of the names of war criminals, but it also is a monument to the millions of other Japanese soldiers who gave their life to fight for Japan. I don窶冲 know if I could ever have the conviction enough to become a Kamakaze pilot, and to willingly die for my country, but if somebody did have that conviction and did so, he should be honored for his sacrafice for my life. German people today go and visit the graves of their relatives all over Europe, even if they fought for the Evil Nazi Empire. And in Japan if the Prime Minister doesn窶冲 have respect for the people who gave their lives to fight for that country, then many would consider him unfit to be president.

Finally I want to speak about your derision of people窶冱 interest in Japan to just manga and anime makes them blind to the past. It窶冱 a pathetic argument., I watch anime, and I like to build my macross models (I got a YF-21 model yesterday窶ヲ YAH!). I also like to eat sushi in vast quantities (it窶冱 the best food on earth), visit Japanese temples (among the most beautiful architecture I have ever seen), play rugby on Sand lots (never had so much fun as in teaching 4 year olds how to play rugby), attempt to speak poor Japanese while talking to Girls ( but that窶冱 not my main interest in japan.). It has so little to do with my understanding of history. I know my values and I would not allow myself to support something so morally wrong. When I am in Japan don窶冲 look around and see a culture that has oppressed Koreans and Chinese during a brief portion of its history. I see a vibrant culture that has moved on and changed itself completely from its horrible path. Japanese don窶冲 want to think about the atrocities of their past. They know it is a scar and would rather not think about. So many people in Germany were apt to say 窶彿t was the Nazis who did it, not me窶? In Japan people would rather not even think about it. But does it mean that Japan is an evil nation now? Not in the least. Japan now tries to lead the world by example providing millions in aid to developing nations and following an almost too strict disavowal of coercive military options. Japan has learned its lesson, I cannot see carrying out the atrocities that it did nearly 60 years ago today. I do agree the Japanese may need to help alleviate the pain of some who suffered under their rule but to present the argument as you did is a very poor showing. You made it sound like the Japanese culture today is so tainted that we should now engage reparations once more so that we make sure japan learns its lesson. Under your argument, I should hate Canada for its piss poor performance on Native rights, shoving them into residential schools and destroying what by all means was a beautiful, vibrant culture. But I look around and see the good in Canada where thousands of cultures intermix, in some of the most stunning terrain ever.
Well I窶况e blown 3 hours writing this and now have 4 hours till my defence management class in the morning. Sorry Senseiman, I窶冤l get to argue my point on the other thread some other day.

edited for grammer
 
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kinjo

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Beating a dead horse...

>>...but since watcher did so almost immediately (which is dismaying to say the least) to increase his argument窶冱 credibility I guess I will do so as well.<<

Ok, firstly, I didn't list my credentials outright as you stated. If you recall, it was listed in a response. Second I only did so in response to Jeisan's point about me stating that just being a descendant of those who suffered inhumane acts were not enough to be an expert. I just listed my credentials counteracting this. If you've taken that in bad taste, then it was a misinterpretation. And no, I don't claim to be a 100% expert on this issue.

>>I don窶冲 pretend I am the ultimate moral authority on things though, because I believe that anybody can argue a valid point, if well thought through. . I窶冦 sure senseiman hasn窶冲 got the qualifications I have, but he sure as hell can make me rethink my arguments whenever we argue. I think a lot of people will be surprised at the line I am taking after reading a lot of my other posts.<<

You could have fooled me. Never did I state what school I attended, current occupation, or future endeavors as you have done. That, my friend, sounds as if you want to declare yourself an authority. I simply stated that I had masters...which meant I studied the topics, and not just blabbering about being a descendant of human rights violation victims. Maybe I phrased it wrong and should have just said I spent some time on the studies.

>>Well where to start? I guess I will start with the assertion that Japan is a morally corrupt nation because it committed atrocities nearly 60 years ago. What nation hasn窶冲? <<

Maybe Switzerland? Never did I make that assertion, and if you thought my posting did so, you are gravely mistaken. I never stated Japan of today is evil. Do I believe that they committed atrocities? Yes, I simply stated a small portion of what was going on. Never did I just say it was just to Korea either, but also to the other territories under Japan's occupation. The current situation is a problem between Japan's refusal to accept the atrocities it committed, and the unwillingness of the countires violated to forgive. Again, I was offering facts and viewpoints of the other side of the coin to Hamada's argument that Korea is MOSTLY to blame. He/she didn't seem to have a good understanding (or facts) of the full history of the atrocities. How often do you read in your school history textooks (not talking about specialized courses) about the European Holocaust compared to that of the Asian Holocaust, if you will? That was my main point, that Japan committed attrocities; and if you agree that Japan did commit evil in the past, why the need to carry this on?

>>The US dropped two atomic weapons and several hundred thousand tons of Incendiary weapons all over Japan in very questionable legal circumstances. What about the US窶冱 support for the Chang Kai Shek, General Diem, Pinochet or Sygman Rhee regimes? Millions more died because the US pushed foreign policies during the cold war that institutionalized fear to control countries for its own end. You speak about the Great atrocities committed by the Japanese in Korea, what about the Kwanju massacre in 1980 where the Park Chung-hee government (who was supported by the US government and may have even received logistical support from the US army) killed 2000 protestors against his government....<<

Oh, and let's not forget how Japan played sneaky in the WWII game: They kept pressing hope on the US and giving "peace medals" to ensure good relationships. Yet, what happened? Pearl Harbor, a dirty sneak attack in which many civilians died also. Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor? There are many theories, but the prominent one is that they wished to gain control of the terrirory. This would have aided not only in rich natural resources, which Japan was lacking, but also serve as a strategic position to keep the US in check. The atomic bombs in the war, though there are both sides to the argument, did end up saving lives. Japan finally realized that they must surrender.

Sure there are political war crimes and in no means are they not to be overlooked; but Japan and Germany had the intent of committing genocide, trying to wipe out entire races of people. Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, people of "groups" were rounded up and slaughtered. People in Asia faced a similar dilemna. Koreans were considered "second class citizens" of Japan and they were forbidden to practice their language, writing system, and other aspects of the culture. Koreans and other conquered citizens were known as "sankokujin" or third world people, meaning a lower class. Yes, I am aware that during the Colonization period and all after, many countries committed acts of genocide. However, do these countries try to downplay these acts? Do we not learn of these in textbooks? What can you say of groups in the US fighting against Columbus Day, since it celebrates a man who committed genocide against Native Americans? Did these countries acknowledge the horrible acts of slavery, genocide, and inhumane acts? That my friend, is the difference with Japan. Many in that nation refuse to just simply ackowledge those deeds. But as in all nations, there are good people...I have many friends and relatives in activist groups there. Also, many in Japan were against the "textbook issue" which did turn some results. Again, I simply pointed out historical acts, and the problem of Japan's refusal to admit to them fully. Never did I claim Japan as a nation TODAY is totally evil. But do I think that covering up history, and pressing on as if nothing happened is? Yes, and that is what I am stating. That ACTION is wrong.

>>II think your analysis of Japanese history is very narrow and skewed, enough so that it biases your statements. I think you have made no attempt to examine Japanese culture critically, and you have resorted stringing together a bunch of events and statements, even rearranging them to support your arguments as you see fit. Well here is another view of history, which is a bit more balanced...<<

Likewise you do the same. How is this more balanced? Seems more like an attack on me. Yes, it raises awareness of the mindset; yes, Japan had a Feudal mindset in the 1940's etc, etc...But in no way it excuses the atrocities. I'm sure that I have no knowledge or even attempted to understand Japanese culture, past or present. I've only lived there for most of my early childhood.

>>Japanese didn窶冲 understand their actions as atrocities; they understood them as what should be done as their culture dictated. I have less sympathy for the Nazi holocaust, a country which had developed much of modern philosophical thought that we use today (Goethe, Hegel, Kant and so many others) knew what they were doing was morally wrong.<<

Valid point there, but do you really need modern philosophical thought to know that those actions are morally wrong? Look at the Hammurabi Code, look at the Ten Commandments, laws of the Roman Empire, Confucius, Taoist, Buddhist teachings, etc... Yes, Japan may not have understood what it was doing THEN as an atoricity, but how about TODAY? Since they know it was wrong, they try to cover up the shame. Some even go to the point like in the texbook issue, to defend their past acts, which were CLEARLY wrong. This is why the neighboring Asian countries, as well as some groups in Japan are upset. They want to the nation to admit that it was wrong, apologize, and move on. That was the point I was trying to make...Japan (the government mainly) needs to be less stubborn, and win it's pride back by apologizing (through actions) and move on. But because of the stubborness to apologize, and of the stubborness to forgive by the once occupied countries, this issue may never get resolved. AGAIN, THAT was the point I was making, and trying to counteract Hamada's argument about Korea just being at fault by stating that Japan was not ALL good either.

>>Also yes Japanese were the cause of 15 million casualties, but by the way you frame those casualties, Germany should be on the hook for 40 Million Plus, rather than seven million Jews. You are counting all the casualties that were caused by war in the Pacific war. The Japanese were occupying powers fighting a guerrilla war across the China, and used violent repression to coerce China. Also you just dump the blame completely on Japan窶冱 shoulders on who started the war without an afterthought. Although I would agree that Japan did initiate the conflict, the US did have some blame for setting up an atmosphere where the Japanese would feel forced to react militarily. They almost expected war with Japan, and in the early 1922 used espionage to end the Anglo Japanese entende. They also devised strategies for defeating Japan in the 1920s (plan Orange). Just dumping the responsibility for ALL casualties on Japan is really unfair. <<

When I listed the number, I wasn't counting the causalties of war. In war, numerous people die and sadly, civiians too. But what I am referring to is the amount of those killed for "fun" or by other reasons than just war. If you think that "killing POWs and civilians for target practice for fun on a mass scale" is a part of war, you really need to rethink your thoughts. Those are WAR CRIMES, and the number who died in that manner was not pretty (Yes the number might be high, but I writing in a rant.....) Sorry to say, but you might want to do some more research in archives of various occupied nations. Talk to POW's and veterans, also the civilians who suffered at the hands of the Japanese. Still, no matter the number, it was wrong.

>>Watcher, if you are right Japanese got off easy on their atrocities窶ヲ then so did Germany. 窶廛e-nazification窶 was a sham, absolutely full of holes. Pretty well it was based on questionnaires which people had to return, which were easily lied upon. Only 1,700 individuals were classified as 窶徇ajor offenders窶 in American Zones, but not one was found in the British and less than a 100 in the French zone. Any trials that did occur often had the defendant supported by their families and friends. But most of these never even got punished because the regime was scrapped by 1947. War leaders both in Germany and in Japan were tried and convicted for their crimes, in the Nuremburg and Tokyo trials.<<

Firstly, 1,700 and a little less than 100 in the French zones, is a far larger number than the ones tried in Japan. Of the 80 Class A War Criminals (major offenders), only 28 were brought to trial; only 19 of them military officers. I'm sure there were more than that! Do the math...1800 is more than 80. The fact that I was trying to make was that Japan did get off easier. It was the very fact that the concentration of it all was on the Western front of Europe rather than Asia. The war in Europe was "closer to home", Western culture, the majority whites having European decent, everyone knowing about Hitler. Thus Asian crimes were seen as far off, and a "foreign" matter.

http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/NanjingMassacre/NMTT.html

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/...eCategoryId=&location=&parentcatid=&subcatid=

>>And if you think the Emperor could be put on trial窶ヲ think again. If people in Japan were willing to die for him in war, more than enough people could orchestrate a cover-up for him in court.<<

Many of those who served the Emperor were fed lies and propaganda; false victory news, no mention of the invasion at Okinawa, etc...The Japanese citizens, though not all, welcomed American troops during the occupation when they realized they were being lied to by their emperor. A lying leader becomes unpopular. When the truth is revealed people will revolt, and seek justice for being lied to. You forgot to mention that 'honor/integrity" is a huge part of Japanese culture, (maybe not so really nowadays.) Did you forget that Hitler was once popular, and if he had lived, would he have been defended? Probably by those close to him, but the public who were once loyal would turn on him. That is the nature of human beings.
Where are you getting your historical resources? Do you really have an understanding? By your lack of references and acknowledgement of common facts it clearly seems not. I've already provided a few references, and would gladly list more if you wish. Yet, you claim that my view of history was skewed; one who lives in glass houses shouldn't through stones.

>>Finally I want to speak about your derision of people窶冱 interest in Japan to just manga and anime makes them blind to the past. It窶冱 a pathetic argument., I watch anime, and I like to build my macross models (I got a YF-21 model yesterday窶ヲ YAH!). I also like to eat sushi in vast quantities (it窶冱 the best food on earth), visit Japanese temples (among the most beautiful architecture I have ever seen), play rugby on Sand lots (never had so much fun as in teaching 4 year olds how to play rugby), attempt to speak poor Japanese while talking to Girls ( but that窶冱 not my main interest in japan.). It has so little to do with my understanding of history. I know my values and I would not allow myself to support something so morally wrong.<<

Again never did I say that Japan today was entirely evil. But if you agree with what many believe about covering up the history, you are committing an immoral act. It is just like saying that the Holocaust never happened.

I appreciate your 3 hour effort response, and some of the vaild points you made. However, I do believe you misunderstood me when I made a reference to the anime/video games topic. Though it may not be true for all (like yourself), these tend to make anyone of either or both sway their bias toward Japan when it comes to any argument, and not SO pathetic as you indicate. I've seen this many times in the past, and almost 95% of the time, the factor was present. No references, or historical facts stated. Not to mention people practically put me on a pedistal just because I am Japanese. (BTW I'm a female, not a male as you assumed.)

While I never claimed Japan was "evil" today, it has many moral problems, more so than most nations. Have you ever lived there? Do you understand Japanese culture truly? I don't think even if you lived there for 20 years would you truly understand, namely due the uchi-soto factor. No one really may unless completely a native. Equal rights are virtually non-existant in Japan, especially for women and foreign residents. One can refuse service or refuse to hire you simply based on race, gender, creed, sexual preference, or natural origin. There is no criminal law in Japan currently on that issue. You tell me if this isn't a moral problem. There are others, and I would rather not waste more time.

I noticed you spoke of "Allah" earlier. Are you of the Islamic Faith? If so, you would know that it is against your religion to drink heavily, engage in prostitution, child pornography, (though RECENTLY outlawed in Japan), the "anything goes attitude in the porn industry".. So would you support such acts? No, Japan is not an evil nation, but the actions and attitudes of some are immoral....especially when it comes to the "war crime coverup issue." Though there are countries who share such moral issues, I don't believe there is any country outright who doesn't admit to its own war crimes...but I could be wrong. In that case, that country needs to acknowledge as well.

>>Japan has learned its lesson, I cannot see carrying out the atrocities that it did nearly 60 years ago today. I do agree the Japanese may need to help alleviate the pain of some who suffered under their rule but to present the argument as you did is a very poor showing. <<

Just as it is to interpret someone's argument without knowing what their point of the message was, or reading the previous post.

>>You made it sound like the Japanese culture today is so tainted that we should now engage reparations once more so that we make sure japan learns its lesson. Under your argument, I should hate Canada for its piss poor performance on Native rights, shoving them into residential schools and destroying what by all means was a beautiful, vibrant culture. But I look around and see the good in Canada where thousands of cultures intermix, in some of the most stunning terrain ever.<<

Again, kindly point out where I stated Japan of TODAY was evil? Where did I state that reparations are needed? Did I not state in my earlier post that those who weren't directly wronged are carrying this too far by asking for such? Read my response making it clear I HAD NO INTENTION OF BEING ANTI-JAPANESE, and fighting for reparations.....If it sounded like it, that's your fault for misinterpreting and not reading the followup post I'm made. Does everything have to be in BLACK AND WHITE for you to understand an author's intent? Gosh, and you have a Masters in politics?

>>Well I窶况e blown 3 hours writing this and now have 4 hours till my defence management class in the morning. Sorry Senseiman, I窶冤l get to argue my point on the other thread some other day.<<

Well congratulations on wasting 3 hours arguing about something that was already put to rest. I apologize if things were misinterpreted but that's your fault for not reading my intent earlier. I only spent 15 min with my posts which was rather rushed, hence leaving out a lot of detail, and thus SOUNDING insensitive. My apologies for that. However, you can't change the fact that history happened. Go ahead and argue all you like, it's futile. Japan committed the acts and it was wrong. You agree with that? They should admit to the attrocities and stop covering it up or justifying it, right? Then, there should be no argument. I never said Japan TODAY was evil, and if you want to argue that I did, be my guest. You have your opinion on that matter, and I have mine, (though stated outright I wasn't trying to be anti-Japanese and apologized.) I won't warrant any of your further posts with a response, because frankly, the issue is at rest, and it's not worth my time. Quit beating a dead horse! Good day, Sir/Maam.
 
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senseiman

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As I think the original intent of this topic was to talk about Japan and Korea and the history of the war, I think there are some points that have been missed.

Take the abduction issue. Almost everyday on NHK news I am bombarded by images of what Hitomi Soga ate for breakfast or some other mundane, non newsworthy detail of the abductees lives. This has continued unabated for almost an entire year since they returned to Japan! It seems these five people have been deliberately elevated to the status of superstars as part of a right wing political campaign to prevent normalization of relations with North Korea.

Certainly the abduction of innocent people is a deplorable act, but it has been blown entirely out of proportion in Japan. The media coverage of Japan/North Korea relations has focused exclusively on the issue of abductions while completely ignoring the above outlined extensive atrocities commited during the Japanese occupation, which remain fresh in the minds of many elderly Koreans and for which no compensation has ever been paid. In contrast, North Korea kidnapped 14 people (possibly a few more that are unknown) and forced them to live in North Korea. They haven't kidnapped anybody else in 20 years and the regime has completely renounced the practice. They admitted it and let the 5 return home, with the obvious hope that this would improve relations with Japan.

So why has North Korea suddenly become the whipping boy for the Japanese media based on the abduction issue? It seemed relations had a good chance of improving, but were deliberately sunk by the right wing, which latched onto the issue as a means of furthering their own political ends. Getting the public angry and scared about a foreign nation with which you've had a history of bad relations is a sure vote getter.

The only other big issue is North Korea's nuclear weapons program. From what Kim Jong Il has been saying, it is clear that that is a response to the US's invasion of Iraq and explicit threats to attack North Korea, actions which have both had the full support of the Japanese government.

Obviously Japan alone isn't alone to blame for the problems that continue to hamper its relations with Korea and other former colonies. Nor is Japan alone in having commited atrocities during war, all nations did during the second world war. But I think some of Watchers points are definitely valid. In Germany, with the exception of the lunatic Neo Nazi fringe, no one would ever defend or deny the atrocities commited by Hitler. But in Japan there are a lot of mainstream, 'respectable' scholars who routinely deny that well-documented Japanese atrocities, including the rape of Nanking, ever occured. I think the Japanese government, like other governments of former imperial powers, would do well to take into consideration the greater historical record and legacy of their rule when conducting relations with former colonies.



Still looking forward to your response to the other thread noyhauser.
 

kinjo

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Thank you senseiman for bringing that to my attention. I completely forgot to comment on the North Korean issue, and it definitely plays a role in the status of future relations between the Asian countires.
 

kinjo

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Korea is defferent from China

I as a Japanese feel very sorry to China. And there are no doubt that some Japanese army committed war crimes in China. But the fact is Japan apologized to China many times. And all of history text used in junior high school has "Nanking masscare" in it. But many people seem to blieve the propaganda that Japanese don't acknowledge or admitt blah blah blah.... Well anyway many Japanese acknowledge that they comitted crimes in China and feel sorry about it.
On the other hand Korea is totally different from China. Many people seem to put Korea and China in the same category saying Japanese killed Koreans , banned Korean culture etc.
First, Korea was part of Japan during WWII! Why should we kill them? and Speaking of Korean culture, have you ever seen old photos of Korea before Japanese occupation. The funny thing is that there are few photos showing "hangul characters" used in the towns. Koreans at that time especially high class ones used Chinese chracters besides their own hangul characters.
But they claim that Japan banned them from using it. And if you see Korean photo which was taken during Japanese occupation era, you will realize that many Koreans were wearing their own ethnic clothes. If Japan is bannig their culture
then why they were allowed to wear their own ethnic clothes.
And the most important thing is the fact that Japan modernized Korea. Seoul university, Seoul station , Kyougi railroad and other infrastructures were built by Japanese. But Koreans tend to minimize those bright side and overexagerate the bad one. Korea was not even a victim in WWII. They also committed war crimes in China. There are many Korean soldiers and Generals who have been executed as war criminals in China and at Tokyo trial. The reason why we Japanese dislike them is because they were fighting with us and some of them even committed war crimes, but when Japan lost war many of them said they were winner and took some lands in Japan illegaly.(That's why you can see many Pachinko in front of staions in Japan). and began to play victim card.
There are another nation which was at similar situation with Korea but treated harsher. That is Taiwan. Taiwan was also colony of Japan. But unlike Korea they teach both bright and dark sides of Japanese occupation. And they don't try to act as a victims. Koreans should learn from Taiwan and stop overexagerating dark sides.
 

senseiman

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Thats interesting, but nobody on this board said anything about Japan banning Korean culture in the first place.

Why should Korea teach its people about the good things about Japan during the war? Korea was a part of Japan during world war 2 only because the country was illegally anexed by Japan against the will of the Korean people in 1910. The fact that Japan built up Koreas infrastructure during the occupation by no means made that occupation a benevolent act. Building up the railway was a purely self-serving act to expedite the transportation of troops and supplies to the war in China. Likewise I'm sure Polish railways thrived during the war years, but you would never hear anyone complaining that you don't hear about the bright side of the Nazi occupation, and rightly so.

The British opened universities, hospitals, etc. during their rule over India too, but their rule was still extremely barbaric to the Indian people. While the Koreans may have suffered less than other victims of Japanese aggression during the war, this in no way mitigates Japanese guilt for that suffering, nor should it in anyway compel them to make a showing of gratitude to Japan for all the 'favors' it did to them during the war.
 

kinjo

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Could you please tell me what did Korea suffer from Japan?
And maybe Japan modernized Korea for Japanese interest. But it benefited Korea as well. Korean population doubled during Japanese occupation, while many Koreans starved during Chosun dynasty. Japanese empire treated Korean people far better than their own Chosun dynasty. And yes they should teach the good side of Japanese occupation rather than overexagerated one-sided story, because the kids have right to know what really happened.
 

senseiman

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How did Koreans suffer from Japan?

Haven' t you heard of the women that the Japanese army forced to be sex slaves for soldiers in the imperial army? From what I've read most of these women were either abducted or lured into service by lies and then forced to sleep with up to 30 soldiers a day, many of whom beat them senseless. Its a wonder that they survived at all. And what about the fact that most of those improvements you praise Japan for granting to Korea were actually carried out by forced Korean labourers toiling under the most horrendous conditions imaginable.

Hypothetically speaking, if Korea had taken over Japan instead and forced thousands of Japanese girls into becoming prostitues for Korean soldiers, would you be complaining today about how ungrateful the Japanese are for not showing appreciation to the Koreans for having enslaved thousands of Japanese in order to expand JR's rail network? I really don't think so.
 

kinjo

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Speaking of comfort woman, yes they existed. Japan built comfort houses in asia to prevent sexual crimes by the Japanese army and also sexual desease. Most of those comfort houseswas managed by private agencies some of them were owned by Japanese army itself. Those comfort women was recruited through prostitute dealers. But there is no evidence that those comfort woman were kidnapped and forced by Japanese army.
 

kinjo

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And if your story is true, why didn't Korea protest against Japan about comfort woman after WII? Why? Comfort women became a serious issue only after almost ten years after Mr. Yoshida's book " My War Crimes" got published, in 1983. "Comfort women" were never mentioned before that time. So most of those testimonies came after Mr. Yoshida's book's release. There is no evidence that they were forced by Japanese army.
 

Mandylion

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Originally posted by bz_jpn
Could you please tell me what did Korea suffer from Japan?
And maybe Japan modernized Korea for Japanese interest. But it benefited Korea as well. Korean population doubled during Japanese occupation, while many Koreans starved during Chosun dynasty. Japanese empire treated Korean people far better than their own Chosun dynasty. And yes they should teach the good side of Japanese occupation rather than overexagerated one-sided story, because the kids have right to know what really happened.
People seem to be making an awful lot out of nothing then...
http://www.asd.k12.ak.us/Schools/West/Countries/Korea/KoreaHistory.html

http://www.nps.gov/kwvm/war/occupation.htm
"They corralled people into slave labor gangs to construct factories, mines, buildings, and roads. The army drafted men to serve as occupation troops all over Asia. Japan alternated brutal repression with divide and rule techniques, which pitted Korean against Korean."

http://www.lifeinkorea.com/Information/history2.cfm
"During its occupation, Japan built up Korea's infrastructure, especially the street and railroad systems. However, the Japanese ruled with an iron fist and attempted to root out all elements of Korean culture from society.

http://www.korea.net/learnaboutkorea/hello/Generalinfo_25.html
"Japan's government-general in Seoul was interested mainly in economic exploitation, and Japanese farmers and fishermen were given Korean land free or at low cost."

If nothing really bad happened, then why the following...

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/apology.htm
"Japanese Leader Apologizes for Occupation of Korea," New York Times, October 9, 1998"

Lets not ignore the Comfort Women...

http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/pmletter.html
"Letter from Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi to the former comfort women"

http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~soh/comfortwomen.html
"This ongoing project examines the issue of Comfort Women in the context of violence against women and the patriarchal sexual culture and militarism."

http://serveur.ichrdd.ca/english/prog/women/tribTokyo/

http://www.hk.co.kr/event/jeonshin/e_homepage.htm
(very well designed and moving site)


" Why didn't Korea protest against Japan about comfort women after WWII?"

If you had been sexually abused, how sure can you be that you would want to come forward and tell your story to the world, fully knowing the emotional trauma it would put you through and the undeserved shame it would bring? I doubt many of us could, and statistics show that many sex crimes in times of peace go without being reported. Imagine how many couped with the horrors of war and occupation are forgotten.

" Japan built comfort houses in asia to prevent sexual crimes by the Japanese army and also sexual desease."

I don't doubt that that was the reason given but do you really think this worked? Does this make it right to do? Also, if this was a response to events in Nanjing, doesn't it seem odd to deny Nanjing was nothing more than a simple take-over of the city (not the horror it really was)?

You seem to be making the argument that empire as a concept is not a bad thing (the "good" outweights the "bad") and that colonies are better off over all. This ignores the basic facts that colonies never benefit from the relationship the way their masters do. The poverty and problems in Africa are largely a result of colonialization. Korea has become the nation it has under its own steam and international aid, not from some self-serving relic of Japanese occupation.

bz_jpn, myself and others welcome your posts to this forum. It is good to have our ideas challenged from time to time. -M
 

kinjo

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Thanks for replying me. But there is no evidence to proove the stories you posted yet. When we discuss about crimes we should discuss on evidences not propaganda. And yes as you pointed Africa suffered from colonialism. But Korea and Taiwan were totally different. Japan built schools and factories and modernized both. I'm not saying that it's OK to occupy other countries but I think Koreans should stop overexagerating the darkside and telling one-sided story. Koreans love to blame everything on us. The name of "sea of Japan", the spelling of Korea(not Corea) were due to Japanese empire. But fortunately
some Koreans now are realizing that what they were told was propaganda rather than historical facts. One Korean writer Kim Wangsop published book which tells the bright side of Japanese occupation. But unfrortunately his book was nominated as "harmful books" and forbidden to be published. But I think that some koreans are becoming to think from many directions gradualy. And I think it's good phenomenan since history is very complex .
 

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