Update Disagree button removed

thomas · 27 Jul 2018

Dear valued Members,

we have decided to remove the option to 'disagree' from the post ratings.

We initially added this feature to show visual disagreement with inappropriate or toxic posts. Fortunately, very few members ever 'disagreed' with posts. However, we found out that the feature was often misused because some could not accept opinions differing from theirs. It was not our intent to offer trolls a tool to stir up negativity.

If you disagree with members feel free to reply to their post and explain yourself in a civil manner.

If you come across inappropriate or abusive posts, please use the 'Report' link located at the bottom of each post (and other content types).

Thank you for your understanding.

jt9258 · 27 Jul 2018

thomas said:
If you disagree with members feel free to reply to their post and explain yourself in a civil manner.

I would agree.

But instead what many do is post a reply based on their opinion and then instead of explaining themselves when others offer up different opinions, they hit the ignore button and refuse to listen to what others have to say, the result is that the discussion stops.

joadbres · 28 Jul 2018

jt9258 said:
But instead what many do is post a reply based on their opinion and then instead of explaining themselves when others offer up different opinions, they hit the ignore button and refuse to listen to what others have to say, the result is that the discussion stops.

You can't force someone to engage if they don't want to. If they won't engage, then why not just let it go and move on? You were probably never going to change their mind, anyway.

That aside, a result in which the discussion stops sounds like a good thing to me. What I find much more aggravating are the discussions that don't stop.

HanSolo · 28 Jul 2018

I disagree with all these posts. I also preemptively disagree with your disagreements with my disagreement.

jt9258 · 28 Jul 2018

joadbres said:
You can't force someone to engage if they don't want to. If they won't engage, then why not just let it go and move on? You were probably never going to change their mind, anyway.

That aside, a result in which the discussion stops sounds like a good thing to me. What I find much more aggravating are the discussions that don't stop.

I agree that you cannot force some one to engage in a discussion if they do not want to, but when the ignore button is used, they are ignoring everything posted by the person being ignored.

While I am happy to let this go, as they may never want to learn a different perspective about a subject being discussed, many times it leaves a discussion biased towards their opinions, as I have felt in the past its pointless replying to some one who is ignoring my posts.

joadbres · 28 Jul 2018

jt9258 said:
While I am happy to let this go, as they may never want to learn a different perspective about a subject being discussed, many times it leaves a discussion biased towards their opinions, as I have felt in the past its pointless replying to some one who is ignoring my posts.

It is pointless to reply if you are only trying to get through to the person doing the ignoring. But you can still reach others who continue to read the full thread, and make your opinion known to them. And by doing this, you still have the ability to counter the discussion bias that you are concerned about.

Anyway, all of these concerns, while valid, have nothing to do with the disagree button, I think. The disagree button only made these kinds of situations worse, in my opinion.

jt9258 · 28 Jul 2018

joadbres said:
It is pointless to reply if you are only trying to get through to the person doing the ignoring. But you can still reach others who continue to read the full thread, and make your opinion known to them. And by doing this, you still have the ability to counter the discussion bias that you are concerned about.

Anyway, all of these concerns, while valid, have nothing to do with the disagree button, I think. The disagree button only made these kinds of situations worse, in my opinion.

The problem with the disagree button is that it allows anyone to disagree and to continue to disagree without offering up any kind of explanation, while placing some one on ignore just cuts their comments off completely, so while both are similar, the disagree button allows the fight to continue.

Transformer5 · 28 Jul 2018

I don't think a thumbs down button really achieves anything constructive. I don't think the lock thread button achieves anything either. In my experience, they're both used by people for personal reasons, because they don't like the particular poster or what they're saying, not out of any sense of wanting to improve the forum.

This was demonstrated recently when I had an altercation with a poster on here regarding another Japan-related forum on a different website. He suggested locking the thread purely because he couldn't handle me criticizing someone who happened to be one of his buddies on the website in question, then when he didn't get his way in getting the thread deleted, subjected me to some very unsavoury and disgusting personal abuse (very unbecoming for a veteran English teacher I might add - I hope you've calmed down, as has your "mate" on the other site. Not that I expect either of you to reflect on your behaviour, let alone apologize).

Zizka · 29 Jul 2018

I don't think a thumbs down button really achieves anything constructive. I don't think the lock thread button achieves anything either. In my experience, they're both used by people for personal reasons, because they don't like the particular poster or what they're saying, not out of any sense of wanting to improve the forum.

I agree with that wholeheartedly. Locks can just be locked by being reported anyway. Might as well keep all button positive.

This was demonstrated recently when I had an altercation with a poster on here regarding another Japan-related forum on a different website. He suggested locking the thread purely because he couldn't handle me criticizing someone who happened to be one of his buddies on the website in question, then when he didn't get his way in getting the thread deleted, subjected me to some very unsavoury and disgusting personal abuse (very unbecoming for a veteran English teacher I might add - I hope you've calmed down, as has your "mate" on the other site. Not that I expect either of you to reflect on your behaviour, let alone apologize).

This, I wholeheartedly disagree with on the other hand.

I think I actually reported and requested the thread to be locked to be honest. Creating a thread in order to vent your anger about something which took place at another forum is just inappropriate in my opinion. Should people chime in, it just generates more negativity and is detrimental to the atmosphere as a whole as we witness someone being judged without their knowledge.

As a forum, it puts the administration in an awkward position in the sense that they end up being the host of some acerbic diatribe.

It's just not the right place to do things like that. I can understand you're upset about being unjustly banned, but a tumbler post would likely much more appropriate.

Even now, it seems like you're using this announcement as an excuse to start up a fight with that other user again with the taunting about apologies and so on.

Try to find a constructive way to vent your anger, don't just try to spread it to other people.

Just my two cents. It's nothing against you as a person, I just think you're wrong about the way you're approaching resolving conflicts.

Transformer5 · 30 Jul 2018

Zizka said:
Creating a thread in order to vent your anger about something which took place at another forum is just inappropriate in my opinion. Should people chime in, it just generates more negativity and is detrimental to the atmosphere as a whole as we witness someone being judged without their knowledge.

As a forum, it puts the administration in an awkward position in the sense that they end up being the host of some acerbic diatribe.

It's just not the right place to do things like that. I can understand you're upset about being unjustly banned, but a tumbler post would likely much more appropriate.

Even now, it seems like you're using this announcement as an excuse to start up a fight with that other user again with the taunting about apologies and so on.

Try to find a constructive way to vent your anger, don't just try to spread it to other people.

I'm not trying to vent anger or spread anger to other people. I expressed an opinion about another forum and why I thought the behaviour of one or two of its members, and their moderation policy, was wrong, and why I've found this forum to be better in that regard. The particular poster you're referring to started a fight with me, threw abuse at me several times, and when the moderators wouldn't accede to his demand to delete the thread, went on another expletive-laden tirade.

I'm not trying to start "another" fight with him (I didn't try and start one in the first place), I'm hoping he reads this and reflects on his behaviour. If he's prepared to apologize for his unnecessary abuse, learn some manners and improve his behaviour, perhaps we could start discussing things in a more civil manner. Until he does that, there's no chance of that happening.

I don't see that there's anything wrong with criticizing either this or any other forum, or highlighting the rude behaviour of its members. They're the source of the negativity.

Zizka · 31 Jul 2018

I don't see that there's anything wrong with criticizing either this or any other forum, or highlighting the rude behaviour of its members. They're the source of the negativity.

I tried my best to explain it in my previous message. I don't really know how else to explain it to be honest. Anyways, I wasn't trying to change your mind, that never happens on forums. Just tried to give a different perspective.

joadbres · 31 Jul 2018

Transformer5 said:
I don't think the lock thread button achieves anything either. In my experience, they're both used by people for personal reasons, because they don't like the particular poster or what they're saying, not out of any sense of wanting to improve the forum.

I want to add one point of clarification.

It is my understanding that only moderators can lock threads, and that the "lock thread" button is used merely to express that one feels that the thread should be locked. Kind of like casting a vote in favor of locking.

If someone more knowledgable about this knows otherwise, please freely provide a correction.

jt9258 · 31 Jul 2018

joadbres said:
I want to add one point of clarification.

It is my understanding that only moderators can lock threads, and that the "lock thread" button is used merely to express that one feels that the thread should be locked. Kind of like casting a vote in favor of locking.

If someone more knowledgable about this knows otherwise, please freely provide a correction.

My understanding is that only forum moderators and forum owners can lock threads, this is done to bring a discussion to a close, which could be done for many reasons, as for the "lock thread button", this is used by forum members expressing a wish to see a thread closed.

As with the "Disagree button", the lock thread button could be used for the same reasons, by trying to force a thread to be closed, so ending the discussion.

Transformer5 · 31 Jul 2018

jt9258 said:
As with the "Disagree button", the lock thread button could be used for the same reasons, by trying to force a thread to be closed, so ending the discussion.

There's a real danger of the lock thread button being used in an inflammatory way as well. I've seen that happen on here. Perhaps the fact that someone has hit a lock thread button shouldn't be made known publicly. Only the mods need to know.

thomas · 31 Jul 2018

Just to clarify the usage of the lock thread button: whether a thread is locked or not is at the discretion of the moderators. There is no right to demand the closure of a thread; the team will apply common sense and pursue whatever's in the best interest of the forum and its members.

Update Disagree button removed

thomas

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jt9258

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joadbres

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HanSolo

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jt9258

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joadbres

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jt9258

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Transformer5

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Zizka

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Transformer5

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Zizka

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joadbres

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jt9258

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Transformer5

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thomas

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