Difference in pronunciation for things like かな vs かんあ

うん is more likely casual, non-polite or colloquial way of saying yes, just like non-polite/short form ある vs. polite form あります.

Buntaro said:

The proper way to say yes is hai.

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文太郎先輩、
Well, until just now, はい is the only way I've known but I'll keep in mind not to use うん

Toritoribe said:

うん is more likely casual, non-polite or colloquial way of saying yes, just like non-polite/short form ある vs. polite form あります.

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How about when you're using it as あいずち not "yes"? Is it also non-polite? In a polite setting you should say はい continuously?

うん is inappropriate also as 相槌 for superiors or strangers. I think ええ is the most common in these cases.

Toritoribe said:

うん is inappropriate also as 相槌 for superiors or strangers. I think ええ is the most common in these cases.

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Now I'm not sure if I've been doing this or not. But I'll be more cognizant now. 気を付けます. Thanks.

nice gaijin said:

In phonology these are called "minimal pairs," where two words with different meanings are identical except for a single sound change (like "bat" and "cat"). It makes it very easy to illustrate the difference between two phonemes in a language, or to show how people speaking in accents may substitute one sound for another but still be understood.

In this sense, don't get too hung up on the proper pronunciation of the ん, because even if you always pronounce it as "n," it would still be understandable--you would just have a noticeable accent.


Here are some examples. The machine may be a little hard to hear, just remember that whatever the next sound is going to be make, move your mouth to that position and make a nasal sound (voiced and breathing out the nose), and you'll find that the ん doesn't have a rule, it describes a natural thing that happens when we speak, called assimilation.

参りましょう / Mairimashou is a very polite way of saying 行きましょう / ikimashou, meaning "let's go" or sometimes "let's get started."

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I've been thinking about this a lot, trying to recognize when ん sounds different (even though I wasn't supposed to pay it too much attention ) and after a day of pronouncing words in Japanese it finally clicked to me, I can hear the "m" sound and I can somewhat hear the "ng" sound too! In my Genki textbook it also says that most Japanese speakers aren't even aware of it happening, and I can totally understand why! Even I was doing it, by copying the way native speakers say Japanese words, and it took me a long while before I noticed the sound I was producing wasn't exactly an "n" sound. The word that helped me recognize it the most was "こんばんは"
The "nba" part in konbanwa has a slight m sound in it after I thought about it for a while. But at the same time, whenever I hear it, it's always automatically registered in my brain as "n" anyway, even though I know how it truly sounds... It's so strange, but interesting!

Haruto Uzumaki said:

I've been thinking about this a lot, trying to recognize when ん sounds different (even though I wasn't supposed to pay it too much attention ) and after a day of pronouncing words in Japanese it finally clicked to me, I can hear the "m" sound and I can somewhat hear the "ng" sound too! In my Genki textbook it also says that most Japanese speakers aren't even aware of it happening, and I can totally understand why! Even I was doing it, by copying the way native speakers say Japanese words, and it took me a long while before I noticed the sound I was producing wasn't exactly an "n" sound. The word that helped me recognize it the most was "こんばんは"
The "nba" part in konbanwa has a slight m sound in it after I thought about it for a while. But at the same time, whenever I hear it, it's always automatically registered in my brain as "n" anyway, even though I know how it truly sounds... It's so strange, but interesting!

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Yup! I've found the ん fascinating because it's a chameleon: even though it's pronounced many different ways, it's still a distinct recognizable phoneme as it's the only kana that is realized as a consonant without a vowel, and the only consonant to appear syllable-final (at the end of a syllable). Assimilation is just a subtle shift in one sound because of the sound next to it, Japanese speakers grew up learning how to do it without thinking about it, like other 鼻濁音 (bidakuon, nasalized consonants). There are things like that in pretty much every language.

Just like how we can drive a car without knowing how it works, we can use language without fully understanding everything about it, especially if we were introduced to the language in our youth. I started studying Japanese in college, so I've had to be a little more systematic in my approach. I think it's motivating to understand the reason behind the peculiarities of a language, and then have those "ah-ha!" moments when you notice it in the field.

It feels like progress because it is. Find the interesting things to keep motivated in your language studies!

nice gaijin said:

It feels like progress because it is. Find the interesting things to keep motivated in your language studies!

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Thank you!