Difference between "Densha" and "Ressha"?

Wardie1993 · 5 Aug 2012

From what i've seen "densha" and "ressha" both mean "train", are these words interchangable? Or do they mean different types of train like the difference between "InterCity" and "Local" trains or "Steam train" and "Electric train"?

Mike Cash · 5 Aug 2012

Densha is electric. Kisha is steam. Ressha merely means a string of cars (a train), without reference to the form of motive power.

eeky · 5 Aug 2012

I think Toritoribe told me once that kisha (汽車) can mean any type of train (though obviously by derivation it appears to mean "steam train"...)

Mike Cash · 5 Aug 2012

In an older generation kisha just meant "train" in the eyes of the passengers, who really didn't care how it moved. When the change to electric came it was hard to break old habits so many just continued saying kisha instead of densha. Now steam is a distant memory and ancient history and people are apt to say densha to mean "train" regardless of how it moves.

What amuses me are the really incredibly rural lines that have one-car operations and are diesel-powered. Technically, they are neither densha nor ressha. People say ressha without ever thinking that it is impossible for one car to be a ressha.

Wardie1993 · 5 Aug 2012

Mike Cash said:
Densha is electric. Kisha is steam. Ressha merely means a string of cars (a train), without reference to the form of motive power.

どうもありがとうございました

Toritoribe · 5 Aug 2012

Mike Cash said:
In an older generation kisha just meant "train" in the eyes of the passengers, who really didn't care how it moved. When the change to electric came it was hard to break old habits so many just continued saying kisha instead of densha. Now steam is a distant memory and ancient history and people are apt to say densha to mean "train" regardless of how it moves.

You won't believe this, but the Sanin Main Line (山陰本線) is not electrificated yet, except for the line in Kyoto or Hyogo prefecture. So, we can't call the trains in Tottori station as "densha". The diesel trains are always called "kisha".

Mike Cash · 5 Aug 2012

It would be more technically correct to call them densha, as diesel locomotives are actually diesel-electric locomotives. The diesel engines drive electric generators, which power electric motors which drive the train.

eeky · 5 Aug 2012

Mike Cash said:
What amuses me are the really incredibly rural lines that have one-car operations and are diesel-powered. Technically, they are neither densha nor ressha. People say ressha without ever thinking that it is impossible for one car to be a ressha.

I think the same is true in English, where "train", at least by derivation, should not apply to single cars, yet the word is still used.

Toritoribe · 5 Aug 2012

Mike Cash said:
It would be more technically correct to call them densha, as diesel locomotives are actually diesel-electric locomotives. The diesel engines drive electric generators, which power electric motors which drive the train.

The main diesel locomotive of JR, which is still used in the San'in Main Line, is a model called Class DD51. This locomotive is a diesel-hydraulic locomotive, not a diesel-electric locomotive.

国鉄DD51形ディーゼル機関車 - Wikipedia

Anyway, we call it "kisha" even if it doesn't use steam, and the writer no doubt used "kisha" as just train here, not as steam train.

Wardie1993 · 6 Aug 2012

みんなありがとう

Mike Cash · 6 Aug 2012

Toritoribe said:
The main diesel locomotive of JR, which is still used in the San'in Main Line, is a model called Class DD51. This locomotive is a diesel-hydraulic locomotive, not a diesel-electric locomotive.

国鉄DD51形ディーゼル機関車 - Wikipedia

Anyway, we call it "kisha" even if it doesn't use steam, and the writer no doubt used "kisha" as just train here, not as steam train.

It does bring up an interesting point regarding how sudden (relative to the length of human history) changes can force new vocabulary on us, and sometimes lead to the continued use of the older obsolete words.

It may take a generation or two for changes to be in common usage, while the change that prompted them is much more rapid.

I still prefer 看護婦 instead of 看護師, which seems artificial and feels forced. It took a while to remember to say "JR" instead of "JNR". And I never really did get used to FEN now being AFN.

Difference between "Densha" and "Ressha"?

Wardie1993

長い英国と日本の友情はラ Cブ！

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

eeky

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Wardie1993

長い英国と日本の友情はラ Cブ！

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

eeky

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Wardie1993

長い英国と日本の友情はラ Cブ！

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

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