Chushingura 47 Ronin

[Zipper Yamamoto]

Hello

I was hoping a kind Japanese Speaker could reply to this post with the Japanese character or letters for the following words:

1 - Chushingura

2 - 47 (The Japanese Numbers)

3 - Ronin

4- 47 Ronin (If there is a single character/symbol that says 47 Ronin)


The reason for this request is that I am trying to design a flag for our small group of players of Shogun Total War. EA recently stopped supporting our old game, but some of our members designed a Mod called Samurai Wars for Medieval Total War and now we are able to create flags for our Clans or groups.

Most Grateful for any Assistance.

Kind regards

Zipper Yamamoto

PS: This is where my particular group resides:
http://p203.ezboard.com/b47chushingura

and this is where the excellent Samurai Wars Mod can be downloaded:
http://www.totalwargames.info/

 

[NANGI]

Konnichiwa Zipper Yamamoto-san!
Welcome and Hajimemashite. Please enjoy the forum!

1 - Chushingura
It is "窶吮?ｰﾂ臣窶伉?:窶堋ｿ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堋ｵ窶堙ｱ窶堋ｮ窶堙ｧ" in Japanese. "窶吮?ｰﾂ臣:窶堋ｿ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堋ｵ窶堙ｱ" means a loyal(faithful) retainer. "窶伉?ﾂ：窶堋ｭ窶堙ｧ" means a warehouse.

2 - 47 (The Japanese Numbers)
It is "ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾂ：窶堋ｵ窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堋ｵ窶堋ｿ" in Japanese.

3 - Ronin
It is "ﾋ弉ﾂ人ﾂ：窶堙ｫ窶堋､窶堙俄?堙ｱ". "ﾋ弉ﾂ人" means a masterless Samurai.

4- 47 Ronin (If there is a single character/symbol that says 47 Ronin)
It is "ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽmﾂ：窶堋ｵ窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堋ｵ窶堋ｿ窶堋ｵ" but not "ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾋ弉ﾂ人". "ﾅｽm" means a Samurai. "ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽm" had lost their master, but they don't lost their loyalty. And people called them "ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽm".

NANGI

 

[Buntaro]

By the way, has anyone been to the Chushingura temple in Southern Tokyo? I went there years ago, and it was fun to see the little museum that someone built in honor of the story. I even saw the water-well where the heads were washed.

 

[Zipper Yamamoto]

Thank You

Thank you Very much Nangi

That was just the information I needed.

If it isn't too much trouble could you explain the following to me as this is how I have understood your message and it may not be correct:

2- ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵ is 47 (4,10,7)
ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾂ：窶堋ｵ窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堋ｵ窶堋ｿ (is this another way of writting 47?)


3- ﾋ弉ﾂ人 means "Masterless Samurai"
ﾋ弉ﾂ人ﾂ：窶堙ｫ窶堋､窶堙俄?堙ｱ means "Ronin"

4- ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽmﾂ：窶堋ｵ窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堋ｵ窶堋ｿ窶堋ｵ means "47 Ronin"
ﾅｽm means "Samurai"
ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽm means "Had lost their master but not their loyalty"
ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾋ弉ﾂ人 I don't know what that means

So although ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽmﾂ：窶堋ｵ窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堋ｵ窶堋ｿ窶堋ｵ means "The 47 that had lost their Master but not their loyalty", In Japan they are known simply as:
ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽm "Those who lost their Master but not their loyalty"

Please forgive my ignorance but I really would like to get this right. I apreciate the history of the 47 Ronin is one of great national pride in Japan and I would not like to cause offence to anyone by displaying incorrect words or phrases on our flag design.

Thanks again for the help

Zipper

 

[RockLee]

"ﾅｽm" means a Samurai.

can u also use "ﾅｽﾋ彈/SIZE]" as kanji for samurai or does this particular kanji have a different meaning ?

2- ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵ is 47 (4,10,7)
窶堋ｵ窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堋ｵ窶堋ｿ (is this another way of writting 47?)

yes, or yon ju shichi ( in hiragana 窶堙ｦ窶堙ｱ窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋ｵ窶堋ｿ)
4 in japanese is either said YON(窶堙ｦ窶堙ｱ) or SHI(窶堋ｵ) ;-)

ﾋ弉ﾂ人 means "Masterless Samurai"
ﾋ弉ﾂ人ﾂ：窶堙ｫ窶堋､窶堙俄?堙ｱ means "Ronin"

Ronin = masterless samurai
窶堙ｫ窶堋､窶堙俄?堙ｱ = hiragana for "rounin"
ﾋ弉 = rou (wandering)
ﾂ人 = nin (person)
ﾅｽm = samurai

ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽmﾂ：窶堋ｵ窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堋ｵ窶堋ｿ窶堋ｵ means "47 Ronin"

ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵ ﾅｽm = kanjisigns for 47 & samurai
窶堋ｵ窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堋ｵ窶堋ｿ窶堋ｵ = shijushichi wich means 47

ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽm means "Had lost their master but not their loyalty"

no, it means 47 samurai

ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾋ弉ﾂ人 I don't know what that means

47 ronin

 

[NANGI]

Konnichiwa Zipper Yamamoto-san! RockLee-san!

can u also use "ﾅｽﾋ? as kanji for samurai or does this particular kanji have a different meaning ?

Yes, usually Samurai is "ﾅｽﾋ? in Kanji. "窶｢ﾂ税ｽmﾂ：窶堙披?堋ｵ" means samurai too. "窶｢ﾂ?窶堙? means a military power. "ﾅｽm:窶堋ｵ" means a man(or government official). Samurai is a government official in the age of Samurai. And "ﾅｽm:窶堋ｵ" means Samurai too.

ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽm means "Had lost their master but not their loyalty"

RockLee-san is right! ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽm means 47 samurai. But usually "ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽm" means the 47 samurai of Chushingura.

NANGI

 

[Zipper Yamamoto]

WoW :win: :win:

Nangi & RockLee, I thank you both for patiently explaining and clarifying my confusion. I am happy to say that between the pair of you I now Know a few words of Japanese
I thank you both for your kindness and enthusiasm!


Zipper

 

[Zipper Yamamoto]

One final question

If for example ﾅｽlﾂ十ﾅｽﾂｵﾅｽm "47 Samurai" is written vertically on a banner should it appear like this?:
ﾅｽl
ﾂ十
ﾅｽﾂｵ
ﾅｽm

or like this? :
ﾅｽm
ﾅｽﾂｵ
ﾂ十
ﾅｽl

I know that Japanese books start from the back and you read towards the front of the book, but I don't know if when reading a page you read it
right to left,
left to right,
up to down,
down to up,
Hence my question, I suppose if I displayed the characters in the reverse order it would read "Samurai 74" instead of "47 Samurai"

Apologies for so many questions :sorry:


Zipper

 

[RockLee]

ﾅｽl
ﾂ十
ﾅｽﾂｵ
ﾅｽm
Like this...start from top to bottom !

 

[Zipper Yamamoto]

CooooooooooooL :win:

Thanks Again

Zipper