Certain questions about formal language

Hytherion · 11 Aug 2015

I've recently started learning japanese and really did not get these parts.

First is the negative volitional. From what I read, it is to express a will not to do a certain action. According to tae kim guide it is a very stiff version of でしょう and だろう. How is it even similar to the two forms on top? I don't get how this is used. Whats the difference between 仕方ない and 仕方があるまい.

Secondly its about the かろう form. I read it to be the volitional for i adjectives and negatives, but what does it do? Eg. なかろう vs ない and 早かろう vs 早い.

Thirdly, is ではないjust a more formal version of じゃないです? Eg. 私は学生ではない vs 私は学生じゃないです, just the latter having a less formal nuance?

These questions have been bugging me and i really hope someone can help me. Thanks!

Toritoribe · 11 Aug 2015

1)
You are talking about an auxiliary verb まい, right? It can express two different meanings; negative volitional and negative presumptive. The former meaning is applied only when the verb is volitional and the speaker can control it.
e.g.
negative volitional
二度と嘘をつくまい。（＝二度と嘘をつかないようにしよう。)
I intend not to tell any lies again.
(You can control your will.)

negative presumptive
彼は二度と嘘をつくまい。（＝彼は二度と嘘をつかないだろう。）
He won't tell any lies again.
(You can't control others' will.)

今日は雨は降るまい。（＝今日は雨は降らないだろう。）
It won't rain today.
(降る is non-volitional.)

It's quite the same as the affirmative volitional form ～う/よう.
volitional
午後から買い物に行こう。
I'm going to go shopping this afternoon.
(This can be invitation "Let's go shopping this afternoon", as you would know.)

presumptive
彼女は午後から買い物に行こう。（＝彼女は午後から買い物に行くだろう。）
She will go shopping this afternoon.

もうすぐ試合が終わろう。（＝もうすぐ試合が終わるだろう。）
The game will be over soon.
(終わる is non-volitional.)

2)
You can think ～かろう is the same as ～いだろう.
早かろう＝早いだろう
仕方があるまい＝仕方がなかろう＝仕方がないだろう

3)
～ではない is the negative of ～だ, and ～じゃないです is a polite form of ～ではない. It's less polite / more colloquial than ～ではありません.

casual/non-polite --> formal/polite
～ではない/～じゃない --> ～じゃないです --> ～ではありません。

Majestic · 11 Aug 2015

Could I also add, if you are just starting to learn Japanese, your first and second questions seem like very advanced lessons for you. The third lesson is a basic lesson, useful (essential) for daily life, but the first and second are rather specialized usages of Japanese.
Not trying to discourage you from learning as much as you can, mind you. Just trying to put a priority on these things.

Hytherion · 11 Aug 2015

Toritoribe said:
1)
You are talking about an auxiliary verb まい, right? It can express two different meanings; negative volitional and negative presumptive. The former meaning is applied only when the verb is volitional and the speaker can control it.
e.g.
negative volitional
二度と嘘をつくまい。（＝二度と嘘をつかないようにしよう。)
I intend not to tell any lies again.
(You can control your will.)

negative presumptive
彼は二度と嘘をつくまい。（＝彼は二度と嘘をつかないだろう。）
He won't tell any lies again.
(You can't control others' will.)

今日は雨は降るまい。（＝今日は雨は降らないだろう。）
It won't rain today.
(降る is non-volitional.)

It's quite the same as the affirmative volitional form ～う/よう.
volitional
午後から買い物に行こう。
I'm going to go shopping this afternoon.
(This can be invitation "Let's go shopping this afternoon", as you would know.)

presumptive
彼女は午後から買い物に行こう。（＝彼女は午後から買い物に行くだろう。）
She will go shopping this afternoon.

もうすぐ試合が終わろう。（＝もうすぐ試合が終わるだろう。）
The game will be over soon.
(終わる is non-volitional.)

2)
You can think ～かろう is the same as ～いだろう.
早かろう＝早いだろう
仕方があるまい＝仕方がなかろう＝仕方がないだろう

3)
～ではない is the negative of ～だ, and ～じゃないです is a polite form of ～ではない. It's less polite / more colloquial than ～ではありません.

casual/non-polite --> formal/polite
～ではない/～じゃない --> ～じゃないです --> ～ではありません。

1. Okay that cleared up alot! I didn't know about the presumptive part.

"It's quite the same as the affirmative volitional form ～う/よう.
volitional
午後から買い物に行こう。
I'm going to go shopping this afternoon."

I would have interpreted this part as lets go shopping this afternoon. Is it about the affirmative volition form?

2. Can you please give me a few examples how to use the かろう form? Its only used for i-adjectives and negatives right? Does this mean its presumptive about something. Like 早かろう = 早いだろう = (its) probably fast/early?

3. Okay got it!

Thanks very much!! Really helped alot.

Toritoribe · 11 Aug 2015

1)
Both can be possible as I wrote "(This can be invitation "Let's go shopping this afternoon", as you would know.)" in my previous post.

Volitional (Presumptive, Hortative)
Usage
In general, the volitional form expresses intention, such as in these cases:

In volitional ("let's" or "I shall") statements: 勉強しよう benkyō shiyō: "Let's study" or "I shall study".

Japanese verb conjugation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2)
Yes, that's right. It's presumptive. (早い usually doesn't mean "fast", by the way. "Fast" is mostly 速い.) FYI, ない is also an i-adjective.
～かろう can't be volitional since adjectives express a state, i.e., they are always non-volitional.

from テルーの唄 in a Studio Ghibli film Tales from Earthsea
悲しかろう＝悲しいだろう
切なかろう＝切ないだろう
寂しかろう＝寂しいだろう
手嶌葵/歌詞:テルーの唄/うたまっぷ歌詞無料検索

Hytherion · 12 Aug 2015

Toritoribe said:
1)
Both can be possible as I wrote "(This can be invitation "Let's go shopping this afternoon", as you would know.)" in my previous post.

Japanese verb conjugation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2)
Yes, that's right. It's presumptive. (早い usually doesn't mean "fast", by the way. "Fast" is mostly 速い.) FYI, ない is also an i-adjective.
～かろう can't be volitional since adjectives express a state, i.e., they are always non-volitional.

from テルーの唄 in a Studio Ghibli film Tales from Earthsea
悲しかろう＝悲しいだろう
切なかろう＝切ないだろう
寂しかろう＝寂しいだろう
手嶌葵/歌詞:テルーの唄/うたまっぷ歌詞無料検索

Thanks so much!

Certain questions about formal language

Hytherion

後輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Majestic

先輩

Hytherion

後輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Hytherion

後輩

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