Bi-cultural Children

[junjunforever]

i think you guys are discounting international schools too much. As far as i know, most "normal" international schools (those that have 1st - 12th grade are globally recognized.

The biggest upside to attending international (american) school is the TOEFL score. Ive never set a foot in the U.S. while growing up in Japan, and i virtually aced the TOEFL (just like many other students). I know a guy, who barely graduated, got a really high TOEFL and got accepted to Aoyama. Some Korean students went to the best colleges in korea solely based on TOEFL and schools wanting "diversity." I believe Tokyo University do not accept students from international schools, but kids have chance at places like waseda or other private colleges.

It is much easier to teach japanese to students attending international school, than teach english to kids attending japanese school. The "best" time to switch school, is around 3rd grade i think. Go beyond 3rd grade, and i dont think the students often get the "native english" speaker status, unless both their parents speak english only at home.

 

[Ultraman]

:jama:
I got the heeby jeebys when my boy was playing soccer in the street with the neighbor. My boy was always 'France'.
We went back to multicultural NZ, but the bland multi racial melting pot wasn't very inspiring. Continual overt institutional reinforcement of racial equality was depressing(!).
Back here now, I find that he is happy being himself. He is so happy with his friends. He says he is Japanese and if pressed says "and NZ'er".
Where I live the neighborhood is happy to see kids playing in the street again. The population has definitely aged here.
He speaks english when I am present, for my benefit, but he can switch languages instantly. (I have to give him ﾂ?鞘?啀窶唹窶唹 to translate what some one said though.)
I have two friends who are brothers in NZ from a mixed marriage, and one of them never wants to go to Japan again and can't speak the language. The other went through university here. The university guy said that when he was with his mates drinking, the conversation always ended up in obscure manga story lines that he could never know.
That experience that he related has stayed with me. I think that to make the best of it is 'in for a penny in for a pound'.
I worry that my sons career will have a glass ceiling in Japan, but if he likes it here maybe he can accept the reason why.
He wants to be a concrete truck driver right now, :dunce:
so I am not too worried about the future.

 

[FrustratedDave]

i think you guys are discounting international schools too much. As far as i know, most "normal" international schools (those that have 1st - 12th grade are globally recognized.
The biggest upside to attending international (american) school is the TOEFL score. Ive never set a foot in the U.S. while growing up in Japan, and i virtually aced the TOEFL (just like many other students). I know a guy, who barely graduated, got a really high TOEFL and got accepted to Aoyama. Some Korean students went to the best colleges in korea solely based on TOEFL and schools wanting "diversity." I believe Tokyo University do not accept students from international schools, but kids have chance at places like waseda or other private colleges.

That is true about the TOEFL, but that still won't enable you to get into the fields like medicine, law and other difficult feilds. If you are genuinely looking at a future in a high academically demanding feild, an International school just does not cut it, sorry.

 

[junjunforever]

That is true about the TOEFL, but that still won't enable you to get into the fields like medicine, law and other difficult feilds. If you are genuinely looking at a future in a high academically demanding feild, an International school just does not cut it, sorry.

That is true. There is no way an international students can become a lawyer or doctor in japan. However, there are plenty of chances for these students to become a lawyer or doctor in the U.S. or other english speaking countries.

So if your child has decided to stay in japan for the rest of his life, japanese school it is. But if he wants wider options in going abroad and working more internationally, I think international schools are just as good, if not better, than japanese schools.

Afterall, the kids can be perfect english speakers living in japan (if their parents are native english speakers) by going to international school. Why should they forego of this chance?

 

[nova]

I think you may be focusing on the bi-cultural trait a little bit too much, lets assume that you had a child that was not half, double, ameripanese (or whatsoever way you choose to label them anyway).

What if is ugly? or get mocked by any other sort of "defect"? Like having a long nose or simply having some personality trait that make them as you would usually say "stick out" over others, seriously.

People can get discriminated for all sort of stupid stuff, anyway.

I agree there are levels of rejection and levels of rejection and a person who looks different in a 'homogenous society' or whatsoever have more chances to being pick on.

But your kids will be individuals whether you realize of it or not, so maybe instead of looking for a general solution to bi-cultural children may you take into account to help them build some self-esteem?.

 

[Mike Cash]

That is true. There is no way an international students can become a lawyer or doctor in japan.

And, specifically, what prevents them?

 

[Masamune_74]

But your kids will be individuals whether you realize of it or not, so maybe instead of looking for a general solution to bi-cultural children may you take into account to help them build some self-esteem?.

I totally agree with what you are saying here Nova just I started this post as a way to get a feeling of what it would be like as a dad of a bi-racial child being raised in a homogeneous society. I felt like this was some crucial info I needed before becoming a dad; as my future wife and I plan to raise our children in Japan. Thanks for your 2 pesos. Muchas Gracias

 

[Mike Cash]

I started this post as a way to get a feeling of what it would be like as a dad of a bi-racial child being raised in a homogeneous society. I felt like this was some crucial info I needed before becoming a dad; as my future wife and I plan to raise our children in Japan.

I am reminded of some words of wisdom I heard at the pre-marital counselling classes which were mandatory for Americans marrrying Japanese back when I did it. (Yes, the Navy can mandate damned near anything it wants).

The fellow running that particular session, himself married to a Japanese and living in Japan a couple of decades or so, told us that the majority of our problems and differences would not stem from one being American and one being Japanese, but rather from one being male and one being female.

It has been my experience that raising bi-racial kids in a homogeneous society is a very close parallel of that. The racial makeup and cultural background have never really factored into things very much at all. Certainly not as much as the bog standard crap that is part and parcel of raising any kid.

It is neither as glamorous nor as traumatic as lots of folks seem to believe.

 

[FrustratedDave]

And, specifically, what prevents them?

The biggest problem is the "大学受験" this is extremly difficult and even students who attend schools geared towards these profesions have a extremly high failure rate. I won't say all but most will fail the first time and then become a "ronin" until they can take the test again that year. It is not uncomon to hear about people doing 4, 5 and six times before being able to enter college.

The way the tests are set up is almost a pre-requisit and requires you to go to one of these schools that are focused on these professions from 1st year junior high school. Like anything, it is not impossible ,but it is extremly unlikely that anyone that attended an international school will be able to pass the exams required, even with years of juku under their belt. And those odds just don't sit well with me.

That is true. There is no way an international students can become a lawyer or doctor in japan. However, there are plenty of chances for these students to become a lawyer or doctor in the U.S. or other english speaking countries.

So if your child has decided to stay in japan for the rest of his life, japanese school it is. But if he wants wider options in going abroad and working more internationally, I think international schools are just as good, if not better, than japanese schools.

Afterall, the kids can be perfect english speakers living in japan (if their parents are native english speakers) by going to international school. Why should they forego of this chance?

Very hard to know what your child will want to do when he/she is an adult, don't you think?

 

[Mike Cash]

I understand there are difficulties, and I appreciate your outlining them. But difficulties are quite different from saying "there is no way", which implies there is some sort of ban against them and is more specifically what I was hoping junjun would clarify.

And can you please edit your post to show the correct attributions? I didn't say any of the things in those three paragraphs. Thanks.

 

[8bit.vis]

So my question to those of you out there that may be "experts," as you may also be a bi-cultural offspring, is what is your feeling on this matter?

Generally speaking, it has been my own personal experience that the biggest problem bi-cultural or bi-racial children have to deal with comes from people fretting about their having problems to deal with.

To put things in perspective, a bi-cultural child who is raised in just one environment (eg, isn't being shuttled back and forth between countries) is going to tend to have less cultural difficulty in that environment than a monocultural immigrant will have adjusting to it.

Of course, I can't speak for Japan in specific. But if you are at all reluctant to have children in an international marriage just because of the bi-cultural / bi-racial question, don't worry about it. They should be fine if you refrain from treating them like some kind of science experiment. Some people will mock their ethnic differences, but then again a great many people are mocked for a whole range of differences. This one shouldn't be particularly significant in that regard.

 

[FrustratedDave]

I understand there are difficulties, and I appreciate your outlining them. But difficulties are quite different from saying "there is no way", which implies there is some sort of ban against them and is more specifically what I was hoping junjun would clarify.

And can you please edit your post to show the correct attributions? I didn't say any of the things in those three paragraphs. Thanks.

Sorry Mike, forgot to change the name,. but its fixed now.

And to adress your first part of the post, I agree, nothing is set in stone.

 

[junjunforever]

youre right mike.. i may have proclaimed fatalistic general truth without trying.

I belive if the kids are smart and willing to put in a lot of effort, it is possible.

I also graudated one of those international schools. In the class of 40, my japanese skills were perhaps 3rd or 4th in class. I can read and understand any japanese newspapers, and have decent (but grossly subpar to native japnese speakers) writing skills. But i know i wouldnt stand a chance in a japnese law class.


With everything being equal, international school students spend more time studying english. It would be easy to say that students can just put more effort than the japanese counter-parts. But the japanese counterparts who want to become lawyers and doctors already spend 10+ hours a day outside school. So in effect, unless the child is a "genius", it is nearly impossible for international school students to pass japanese college entrance tests, let alone be a doctor or a lawyer.

That in no way is putting down international schools. I know many people who went to Penn, harvard, or cornell. It just seems to me that if u want to become a doctor or lawyer, the chances are much higher in the U.S..

 

[Mike Cash]

Thanks for clarifying. The problem was not so much your statement as concern based on the fact that lots of readers on the internet display an inability to tell the difference from an accurate and categorical statement of fact and opinion embellished with hyperbole. We have enough folks operating on faulty or poorly understood information as it is.

 

[Taiko666]

I will point out that the single largest mistake a person wishing to raise bilingual children can make is to ever let the children know you are functional in another language. Children are highly pragmatic and will follow the path of least resistance (read: "effort"). Lectures about the value of having facility in another language in the future fall on deaf ears; kids are all about the here and now. And so long as they know they can communicate with Daddy in Japanese, that's what they're going to do.

I understand what you're saying about children's perspectives, but why is just letting them know (or find out) that you speak another language a mistake?

Did you actively hide the fact that you speak another language?

 

[Mike Cash]

I thought the last sentence in the quoted section answered the first question.

The answer to the second question is, "No." Part of the reason I have monolingual Japanese speaking kids.

 

[Goldiegirl]

My husband and I are hoping for a child soon. I want our kid(s) to speak Japanese and English. As for culture, it comes with the country they are raised in...

 

[GaijinPunch]

As for culture, it comes with the country they are raised in...

Or lack there of in many cases.

 

[FrustratedDave]

My husband and I are hoping for a child soon. I want our kid(s) to speak Japanese and English. As for culture, it comes with the country they are raised in...

You have more chance of them speaking both languages very well if the mother is English speaking(Well if you go by the patterns of the wife staying home here)

 

[Ultraman]

I agree FrustratedDave.

My son only heard and spoke english living outside Japan until three years old. Wifey was bilingual, but never spoke japanese with him.
From three to four years old, he went to hoikuen while living in Japan. In one year he forgot to speak english. Even though wifey and I only spoke in english at home then, he only replied in japanese.
After a six month stint in NZ, he became bilingual. I taught him to read and write english, bought bilingual DVD's that he watches with friends in the language of his peers.

He talks both languages with his mother which is the icing on the cake.
As soon as I can speak japanese it'll be the cherry on top.

...gotta go. "Dada! The arrow doesn't work on the dinosaur game!"...