Absolute and relative time, in the same sentence

charusu

先輩

23 Feb 2011

131

2

• 23 Aug 2012

• #1

Hi everybody,

So two questions. I know に can be used to make a specific time when an event occurs, like 「私は午前八時に学校に行きます。」. No problem there.

1) But how would I say something simple like "My departure is at 8 AM." - 「私の出発は午前八時にです。」? The にです seems odd.

2) How would I say something like "I am going to school at 8 AM tomorrow." (combining a relative and an absolute time in the same sentence) ? 「私は明日午前八時に学校に行きます。」?

Some clarity would be great!

Thanks a lot!

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 23 Aug 2012

• #2

Leave off the に before です

 

charusu

先輩

23 Feb 2011

131

2

• 23 Aug 2012

• Thread starter
• #3

Thank you, Mike. But I could say 「午前八時には私の出発です。」right? Just with a slightly different emphasis. In the original sentence how do I indicate the "time location" without に? Like I think I would understand it if I were to read it without に, but why I need to leave it out isn't completely obvious to me, other than the fact that it looks odd and I haven't seen it that way before.

Thanks again!

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 23 Aug 2012

• #4

It's because you switched subjects between the two examples and hence the construction is different.

In English you would say "My plane leaves at eight" but not "I'm taking the at eight plane"....you'd say "I'm taking the eight o'clock plane" instead.

Same idea.

 

charusu

先輩

23 Feb 2011

131

2

• 23 Aug 2012

• Thread starter
• #5

Makes sense, thanks a lot!

 

Elizabeth

先輩

22 Apr 2003

9,839

135

• 24 Aug 2012

• #6

charusu said:

Thank you, Mike. But I could say 「午前八時には私の出発です。」right? Just with a slightly different emphasis. In the original sentence how do I indicate the "time location" without に? Like I think I would understand it if I were to read it without に, but why I need to leave it out isn't completely obvious to me, other than the fact that it looks odd and I haven't seen it that way before.

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

時には私の出発です still looks a bit unnatural. Probably you don't need the 私の but it is hard to say without knowing what it would logically follow in the previous sentence.

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 24 Aug 2012

• #7

午前八時 doesn't have any other usages than the "time location" even without に. It's neither just "eight" nor "eight hours". 午前八時に is an adverbial phrase, so it can't be the subject, object, or predicate with copula. You can think 私の出発は午前八時です as 私の出発時刻は午前八時です.

As Elizabeth-san pointed out, 午前八時には私の出発です sounds awkward, but 午前八時に出発です is OK. In the sentence 午前八時に出発です, the predicate 出発です is more close to a verb 出発する, that's why に is used here. In fact, you can use 午前八時の出発です when 出発 is used as a noun.

 

Glenn

一切皆苦

8 Jan 2004

7,842

200

• 24 Aug 2012

• #8

Yeah, either that or turn の into は. But 私の出発です feels strange to me too when it's after ～時には.

[Edit] Beaten to the punch...

 

charusu

先輩

23 Feb 2011

131

2

• 24 Aug 2012

• Thread starter
• #9

Thanks everybody!

 

Elizabeth

先輩

22 Apr 2003

9,839

135

• 24 Aug 2012

• #10

Toritoribe said:

As Elizabeth-san pointed out, 午前八時に午前八時に出発です私の出発です sounds awkward, but 午前八時に出発です is OK.

Click to expand...

Aren't there times when 午前八時には出発です also OK ? :?

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

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• 25 Aug 2012

• #11

Yes. は adds the nuance of までには.

 

Elizabeth

先輩

22 Apr 2003

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• 25 Aug 2012

• #12

Toritoribe said:

Yes. は adds the nuance of までには.

Click to expand...

Yes. I would use it for departures that required extensive preparation or planning --(ie Modotte iru ing somewhere. )