Abortion?

[freely63]

How do you feel about Abortion?
Do you perhaps think Adoption is a better alternative?
Or maybe you think its ok under special circumstances?

Now this is a subject that people have strong views on, and we DO want to hear what you think.
So feel free to express yourself here.

 

[Mars Man]

I place abortion in the grey zone. It is a very difficult thing to work with and on. The one thing that I do tend far more so than not to support, is the non-right of the political element of a social group to decided what an individual woman will do about that...up to a certain point...in the gestation period. Some have tried to bench mark it at various points, and that is also hard. 18 weeks might surely be a good point, beyond which, abortion ought not be considered allowable--but that too, will depend on a few factors.

At the same time, forced abortion by the state is also a difficult thing to consider. There may well be those times when a social group will feel the benefit for the whole is best achieved by a single, or single catagory of forced abortion. That is one are I must think about more.

As for the general 'pro-lifers' in the US, their platform is overly shaky, and obsolete, and therefore without any willingness to whatsoever to inspect that platform, their objective is ill founded, and incorrect.

 

[sabro]

My personal choice would be to respect life... and to avoid terminating a healthy pregnancy under almost any conditions... which is really easy to say as I am male.

The pragmatic thing to say is that we should protect life after the first trimester and respect the choice of the mother at all other times. Exceptions for extreme cases should be left to the woman and her doctor.

 

[MadamePapillon]

To me it's a personal choice.

There is a number of reasons why someone would get an abortion and I don't think it's right to call it either 'right' or 'wrong' or to call the women who get abortions murderers. Until a certain point a fetus is not actually what I would consider to be a life. They are the possibility of life but far from being a full fledged human being.

This is an issue that should be between a woman and her doctor (and possibly her girlfriends and the potential father), but in the end, a woman has to do what she thinks is best because, inevitably, the results of her choice will lie directly on her own shoulders.

 

[Numark]

I feel that it is irrational and illogical to say that when someone has an abortion, that it isn't killing a human being. Humans only have human offspring, so at what point is a fetus not human? I feel that killing an innocent person is wrong.

This is only one of the reasons I feel that abortion is wrong, not from a religious point of view, but from a logical point of view. I also think, that if you were to be able to ask a fetus or unborn child if it wanted to live, regardless of its circumstances of conception, the answer would ALWAYS be "yes."

 

[Goldiegirl]

I half been on both sided of this argument. The only for sure thing for me is that late term abortions are wrong. People will argue that what if the mothers life is in danger, fine, deliver a premature baby and do your best, not just kill it. We have such good premie care now that younger and younger babies are surviving, and without all of the devastating effects that being born too early used to have.

My husband and I are a point where we want to start a family. He's in his 40's and I am in my 30's. I will have all the tests done to make sure that we are having a healthy child. If it were found out that the baby had a terrible, terrible problem, I don't think we would go through with the pregnancy. We've discussed it, and we both feel the same way. BUT, we aren't closing any doors, I don't know how I would feel when pregnant. That could change my whole opinion.

 

[nice gaijin]

The decision to have an abortion is not a light one, but whether or not it is acceptable or safe or even legal, abortions will be performed.

I found this article very enlightening; it's not often that we get to hear from the perspective of those that perform abortions. Home | The National Post Home Page | National Post

some excerpts

The first month of my internship was spent on Ward 41, the septic obstetrics ward. Yes, it's hard to believe now, but in those days, they had one ward dedicated exclusively to septic complications of pregnancy.

About 90% of the patients were there with complications of septic abortion. The ward had about 40 beds, in addition to extra beds which lined the halls. Each day we admitted between 10-30 septic abortion patients. We had about one death a month, usually from septic shock associated with hemorrhage.

I will never forget the 17-year-old girl lying on a stretcher with 6 feet of small bowel protruding from her vagina. She survived.

I will never forget the jaundiced woman in liver and kidney failure, in septic shock, with very severe anemia, whose life we were unable to save.

Today, in Canada and the U.S., septic shock from illegal abortion is virtually never seen. Like smallpox, it is a "disappeared disease."

Let me tell you about an abortion patient I looked after recently. She was 18 years old, and 18-19 weeks pregnant. She came from a very strict, religious family. She was an only daughter, and had several brothers. She was East Indian Hindu and her boyfriend was East Indian Muslim, which did not please her parents. She told me if her parents found out she was pregnant she would be disowned and kicked out of the family home. She also told me that her brothers would murder her boyfriend, and I believed her. About an hour after her operation I and my nurse saw her and her boyfriend walking out of the clinic hand in hand, and I said to my nurse, "Look at that. We saved two lives today."

I love my work. I get enormous personal and professional satisfaction out of helping people, and that includes providing safe, comfortable, abortions. The people that I work with are extraordinary, and we all feel that we are doing important work, making a real difference in peoples' lives.

I can take an anxious woman, who is in the biggest trouble she has ever experiences in her life, and by performing a five-minute operation, in comfort and dignity, I can give her back her life.

After an abortion operation, patients frequently say "Thank You Doctor." But abortion is the only operation I know of where they also sometimes say "Thank you for what you do."

 

[sabro]

so abortion should be legal only because it prevents more dangerous illegal abortions and it remedies unpleasant and possibly dangerous dating situations?

I'm not comfortable with this at all. I am glad that it is a choice I will never face.

 

[Ma Cherie]

People will argue that what if the mothers life is in danger, fine, deliver a premature baby and do your best, not just kill it.

If only if it were that simple. Some women can't just deliver a premature baby and everything is okay, the pregnancy itself can be a threat to the mother's life and health, and there are circumstances such as an ectopic pregnancy were sometimes there has to be an abortion.

so abortion should be legal only because it prevents more dangerous illegal abortions and it remedies unpleasant and possibly dangerous dating situations?

Well what do you suggest? There has been many studies to indicate that when abortion is illegal, women have sought them out anyways. It is still occurring in countries where abortion is illegal. It is more dangerous. What makes it so bad, is that these places where abortion is illegal or restricted it seems it's harder to get access to birth control and family planning services, which I believe can help decrease the need for abortions.

And could you explain to me what you mean by "dangerous dating situations?"

 

[Goldiegirl]

Yes, ectopic pregnancies happen, but they very, rarely if ever make it to the end stages of pregnancy. Now with modern medical practices, most woman from "modern" countries have an ultrasound at about 12 weeks. They would know that early if it was ectopic.

I think to use abortion as birth control is wrong. There are plenty of methods to prevent pregnancy; condoms, IUD/IUS, sponge, spermicides, pills, diaphragms, and the list goes on. My 17 year old niece lives with me. I tell her this, I can't stop you from having sex, it's you decision. I would prefer you wait until you are an adult, but if you decide to have sex there is NO REASON to get pregnant or a sexually transmitted disease. You can buy condoms at every gas/petrol station. If you are to embarassed to buy condoms, then you aren't mature enough to have sex.

 

[Numark]

I wouldn't classify terminating life-threatening pregnancies an abortion. In all circumstances, doctors will try to save both lives, if that is viable. In circumstances where the child would be able to survive, a doctor would have no reason to purposely kill the child, yet obviously the emphasis is on saving the mother's life, and rightfully so, she already has ties with this world. To me an abortion is knowingly killing an unborn child that the mother does not want to have, not the choice to try and save a mother over a child.

 

[Revenant]

I've always leaned towards pro-life, but it is a grey zone. The fetus isn't conscious or according to a British study, even able to experience pain.

However, we can infer that an unconscious person, while unable to understand what is happening, unable to protest, and unable to feel pain, would later protest certain actions being done to her while unconscious.

The same goes for a child born with physical or mental disabilities due to the consumption of certain substances during pregnancy (I have severe varicose veins and other vascular malformations probably due to alcohol consumption while I was in the womb). Those children, while unable to consciously know anything, and thus unable to protest, would most likely protest later on.

We can infer what the fetuses would most likely want, whether that is simply to live, or be born with a healthy body and mind.

Life is after all essential to the search for happiness.

Unwanted babies are usually (whether or not they recieve the necessary physical care) unable to develop some abilities to trust other people, and less able to feel compassion or empathy as those babies that were well-cared for and wanted. From a happiness perspective, being unable to trust others, or being unable to empathize would limit one's abilities to experience happiness. And in the end, all we do (as I would argue it) is for happiness.

Errrr... I don't know where I stand really....

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I think women should have every right to have an abortion if they want to, no woman should be forced to have a baby she doesn't want. Having a child is a massive responsibility, it is the biggest life changing decision a person can ever make, and no one should be forced to have a child if they don't want one.


Ever since i started having sex i have always used contraception, because i don't want to get pregnant and i don't want to get STD's.
At first i used condoms, but when i met my fiance and we had been going out for some months i switched to the pill and i have been on that ever since.

I have been on the pill for over 5 years now and i always take it on time everyday, in the few rare cases when i have not been able to take it on time i have simply switched back to using condoms until it is safe to rely on the pill again.

There are some very rare cases of women, who even though are on the pill and are taking it properly, end up getting pregnant. If a case ever happened to me i would have an abortion immediately as soon as i found out that i was pregnant.
I do not consider a few cells/fetus to be a human being- it has not fully developed into a human being- how can you call a fetus which has no eye's, lungs, brain etc a human being? When a baby is developed enough to survive out of the womb i would be more confident about considering it as a human being, up until that point though it is just a fetus leading a vegetable like existence and i do not consider women who have abortions murderers. If women who have abortions are guilty of murder, then surely using the same logic women who miscarry their baby are guilty of manslaughter?


I don't think that any woman would use abortion as a form of contraception, i've never heard of any women doing so at the very least. I don't that any woman takes the decision of abortion lightly either.


For the "pro-life" people- if a woman was gang raped and fell pregnant, would you want her to deliver the rapists child? How could you possibly expect a woman to do such a thing? Its horrific.

 

[yumeitsumo]

mmm. Abortion? Well I think that I am both for and against it. I think it depends on the situation. If you got raped: Get abortion. If you were not being careful and got pregnant: IF YOU DON'T WANT THE BABY GET ABORTION! Maybe I am for abortion. I think it's always the mom's decision. No one can tell you that you can or can't keep ur baby.

 

[Haruspex]

Im pro-abortion. I have a nice solution you know. Deliver each nay-sayer a newborn child that wasn't aborted, and lets see if they can still say no.
A child is a responsibility that CAN'T be forced on anyone.
You don't force people to become catholic priests and live in celibate right?
You don't force people to work in mines right?
Why would you force people to have children?
Besides, if abortion is murder, not having children at all is twice the crime, which obviously sounds dumb.
Its not like i'll ever have an abortion lol, but I think like this:
If something's in my body, its under my control, and if I don't want it to be there, its going to come the hell out.
No one has the right to force anyone to bear the weight of another life.

It might sound cruel, it might sound harsh, but say, what about an early pregnancy?
If a person becomes pregnant while in university, would it be right to have her screw her life so some elevated being can feel this aura of justice about? Hypocrisy!

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I feel that it is irrational and illogical to say that when someone has an abortion, that it isn't killing a human being. Humans only have human offspring, so at what point is a fetus not human?

A foetus only becomes a human being when it has a chance to survive outside the womb. Before that it's just human tissue, a part of the mother's body, with someone else's genetic material thrown into the mix.

No one has the right to force anyone to bear the weight of another life.

This is the best statement I've read on this thread.

 

[Goldiegirl]

There aren't really many excuses for un-wanted pregnancies. That's what I find so ridiculous. We KNOW what causes pregnancy now a days....

 

[Half-n-Half]

There aren't really many excuses for un-wanted pregnancies. That's what I find so ridiculous. We KNOW what causes pregnancy now a days....

Rape classifies as one way you can have an un-wanted pregnancy. I agree with your above statements that women should take better care of themselves and be more careful. If you choose to have sex and get pregnant you can really only blame yourself. But in a case of rape, that's where I am undecided on abortion. Your thoughts?

 

[Goldiegirl]

Rape, yes is a reason, but if you are raped, don't wait for months to get an abortion you can go to any emergency room and/or pharmacy (in some areas at least where I live) and get the "day after pill". I wouldn't force any woman to carry a rapists child. BUT here is where women get mad at me. If you get pregnant and the man in the relationship wants the child and will raise it, support it, etc, if the woman doesn't, why doesn't he get a say? He is part of that child. I know it gets difficult because woman have the burden of carrying the child for 9 months, but what if she were compensated? See, that's where I have questions......

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Congrtas Goldie girl on starting a family

Kai is our first, me 39 and my wife 35..

It's never to late, you will not regret it.

Be prepared for busy times ahead, but you always have your reward.

As for abortion.. Their are definite pro's and cons on all sides..

When I was an early teen, yes, it happened to me and a few mates in those stupid juvenile days.. Sex without a condom was common place, AIDS wasn't heard of, so all was fun..

Of course finding out that your partner was pregnant made any young man's stomach drop.. hey, we were still experimenting with sex, forget family life..

My opinion is an 18 year old single girl is just not ready to have a child alone.. That may sound old fashioned because I was 39, not sure..

But I do think abortion shouldbe looked at properly and assessed on each individual's needs.

Their is of course always the dangers of abuse..

Life I guess...

 

[Ma Cherie]

mmm. Abortion? Well I think that I am both for and against it. I think it depends on the situation. If you got raped: Get abortion. If you were not being careful and got pregnant: IF YOU DON'T WANT THE BABY GET ABORTION! Maybe I am for abortion. I think it's always the mom's decision. No one can tell you that you can or can't keep ur baby.

Again, it's not that simple. If a woman has been raped, she shouldn't have go get an abortion. While I believe it is an option, I really believe it depends on the circumstance. I know if I met a woman who was raped and got pregnant I wouldn't tell her to go to the nearest abortion clinic. Lots of women who get abortion were being careful.

Rape, yes is a reason, but if you are raped, don't wait for months to get an abortion you can go to any emergency room and/or pharmacy (in some areas at least where I live) and get the "day after pill".

Just so you'll know, there have been hospitals lately that have reluctant to give raped women emergency contraception. So what do you about this? You can't just say "go to the emergency and get EC." What if the woman is unable to do this? What if she is unable to go to her local pharmacy to get EC?

Im pro-abortion.

How is it possible to be pro-abortion? ☝

 

[Haruspex]

How is it possible to be pro-abortion? ☝

Simply. I don't feel anything high and mighty, and just and whatnot when it comes to children and life protection and whatnot.
Protecting a life by screwing another is not life protection.
If you take away the child, no one will suffer. If you don't, in the best case the mother will suffer, in the worst both the mother and the child.

 

[Revenant]

If something's in my body, its under my control, and if I don't want it to be there, its going to come the hell out.

If something's in your body, I think that if it is to live, that it shouldn't be left to whatever choices you make, as fetal-alcohol sydrome babies attest to. 'Under your control' I would argue has some limits.

 

[MadamePapillon]

Simply. I don't feel anything high and mighty, and just and whatnot when it comes to children and life protection and whatnot.
Protecting a life by screwing another is not life protection.
If you take away the child, no one will suffer. If you don't, in the best case the mother will suffer, in the worst both the mother and the child.

While I'm not anti-abortion I do think the attitude you take towards abortion is just a little to casual. Abortion is not something that should be taken lightly where you can just say "oh, you don't want it, no big deal, just have an abortion". Often women do have depression and need counseling afterwards. It may have been the right choice, but it should never be an easy snap decision.

And, just a side note...you really should care about children. Even if a child is not your own I think everyone has a responsibility to watch out for and protect children. It may sound sappy but they really are our future.

 

[nice gaijin]

so abortion should be legal only because it prevents more dangerous illegal abortions and it remedies unpleasant and possibly dangerous dating situations?

I'm not comfortable with this at all. I am glad that it is a choice I will never face.

In a sense, yes. Making abortions illegal is not going to decrease the number of abortions performed, but it will make them more dangerous. Should they be outlawed because some people have a moral or religious objection? I wouldn't be too comfortable with that.

And what's this about "dangerous dating situations?" I don't like that people equate legal abortions to promiscuity and careless sexual encounters. To most people, abortion is not such a casual decision. I don't think that it should be treated as a contraceptive, but who am I to tell a woman what to do with their body?

I'm pro-abortion

The preferred term is "pro-choice."