A few questions to ease my mind...

daBigNY · 15 Sep 2004

first how do you express past tense in japanese? i have search my dictionary and can't find the past tense of many words that i use in everyday speaking.

second, what about future tense for that matter?

third, what does "masu" mean? i know tabetia mean i want to eat and tabemasu means going to eat. what does "masu" mean that it would change this word in this way?

fourth, what does "ga" means?

fifth, why is the word "or" "ca" when it's in a sentence but "sore to mo" if it begins a sentence? whose idea was that?

thanks for your answers. more questions will come as i journey through this interesting langauge.

PaulTB · 15 Sep 2004

daBigNY said:
thanks for your answers. more questions will come as i journey through this interesting langauge.

If at all possible get a basic text book - shop, amazon, library whatever.
If you absolutely can't get hold of one then go to a decent web-lesson site like Teach Yourself Japanese

There are some really really basic questions and mistakes in your post and there's no point trying to get someone to go over every single point in the Japanese language if you're not working up the basics yourself.

Fantt · 15 Sep 2004

Don't get too discouraged. PaulTB has a great idea - do your best to invest in a basic japanese text - something like "Japanese For Busy People I," "Genki 1" or "Nakama 1." I'm sure there's more. Try to find the Pimsleur audio files. Whatever you do, don't rely on a basic romaji dictionary.

If you're interested, you will find a way. Get a book, learn a little, and if you're still confused, I'm sure that many of the more skilled among us will be glad to help.

sl0815 · 15 Sep 2004

Here's another site about japanese grammar (with kanji and IMHO better romanization):

Japanese: Grammar and such

Also have a look at Jim Breen's Web-Dictionary:

WWWJDIC: Word Search

Jan

PaulTB · 15 Sep 2004

Fantt said:
Don't get too discouraged. PaulTB has a great idea - do your best to invest in a basic japanese text

I may have sounded a bit rough - everybody has to start somewhere, I started with a cheap 'learn Japanese' computer program that I just about finished in one weekend

Once you've got a decent text book or two half the questions you come up with can be answered by a careful look at the index - anything left over you can bring back here.

daBigNY · 15 Sep 2004

ok people...

....i am in fact learning japanese through pimsleur and i am learning very well. i just noticed that have not heard anything in past or future tense. can someone at least answer that question?

sl0815 · 15 Sep 2004

Past tense

Jan

Buntaro · 15 Sep 2004

Would you like a list of verbs in past tense?

verb
present - past

eat
tabemasu - tabemashita

dance
odorimasu - odorimashita

study
benkyou shimasu - benkyou shimashita

~~~

There is no future tense in Japanese. We just use situational awareness:

Ashita benkyou shimasu. I will study tomorrow.

~~~

"masu" makes it polite: odoru (dance regular) odorimasu (dance polite)

I want to eat = Tabetai not Tabetia. You cannot add masu to this sentence.

~~~

"ga" means that the word immediately preceeding it is the subject of the sentence. There is no such subject-indicator in English.

~~~

I have no idea what you are talking about regarding "or" "ca" vs. "sore to mo". Can you give examples?

Fantt · 15 Sep 2004

In the Pimsleur lessons, they teach that ka is used as the english word "or" when comparing things. yoji ka goji ni... at 4 or 5'oclock. Pimsleur then says, if you start a sentence with the equivalent of "or," start the sentence with soretomo.

yoji ni tabemasu (I eat at 4 o'clock). Soretomo goji ni tabemasu. Or I'll eat at 5 o'clock.

Sorry for my lame japanese sentences, but I think that's what daBigNY is asking. Why use Soretomo in the second case? Personally, I'm just chalking it up to, "just because."

Scrivener · 15 Sep 2004

Normally (I think) you always have a "ka" (question mark) with "soretomo", like:
コーヒーですか,それとも紅茶にしますか "Will you have coffee, or tea?"

In that sentence above you would probably use "somonakereba" I think ("otherwise").
yoji ni tabemasu, somonakereba goji ni tabemasu
"I eat (it) at 4, or if not at 4, then at 5"

You would use "soretomo" if you were asking a question.
yoji ni tabemasu ka, soretomo goji ni tabemasu ka?
"Will you eat (it) at 4, or will you eat it at 5?"

But the straight "or" phrase would just be "yoji ka goji ni tabemasu"

That's my understanding anyway.

Tabemasu usually needs an object, or you would say "shokuji (wo) shimasu".

PaulTB · 15 Sep 2004

daBigNY said:
....i am in fact learning japanese through pimsleur

Well that explains the horrible romaji.

I've always been dubious about Pimsleur for anything but listening comprehension and pronunciation practise ...

Fantt · 15 Sep 2004

So far Pimsleur has been great in teaching me how to try to pick up women in Japan, how to order 9 bottles of beer, and how to beg for money. Important skills I'm sure!

PaulTB · 15 Sep 2004

Fantt said:
So far Pimsleur has been great in teaching me how to try to pick up women in Japan, how to order 9 bottles of beer, and how to beg for money. Important skills I'm sure!

Yes, important skills to be sure...

But it would be nice if it also taught how to write Japanese words in kana / romaji, basic sentence structure and grammar, some simple verb conjugations and the 'polite' ～ます vs 'dictionary' forms.

These are all things that are covered in the first chapter or two of most text books.

Fantt · 15 Sep 2004

Pimsleur teaches the -masu verb forms. It would be really cool if they could teach Hiragana. Since it's all audio, it might go something like this.

"First we'll start with a. Draw a horizontal line - not too long, not too short. Now, draw a vertical line through the middle of the horizontal line. Good. Now draw a sort of circular squiggly thing around the vertical line but not quite up to the horizontal line. Now, you've probably messed it all up, so scratch it out and try again."

I'd like to hear the description for how to draw 'me' or 're.' Great stuff.

God · 15 Sep 2004

i still myself don't understand how ga/wa really works nor does paultb.. lol

daBigNY said:
first how do you express past tense in japanese? i have search my dictionary and can't find the past tense of many words that i use in everyday speaking.

second, what about future tense for that matter?

third, what does "masu" mean? i know tabetia mean i want to eat and tabemasu means going to eat. what does "masu" mean that it would change this word in this way?

fourth, what does "ga" means?

fifth, why is the word "or" "ca" when it's in a sentence but "sore to mo" if it begins a sentence? whose idea was that?

thanks for your answers. more questions will come as i journey through this interesting langauge.

basically i think most japanese language dictionaries suck.

most past tense are indictaed by a shita for tabema(shita)....

masu makes the sentence somewhat current.

i like to give this example... muahahaha

watashi no inu ga shukudai o tabemashita. - this would be my dog ate my homework....

watashi no inu ga shukudai o tabemasu - being my dog is eating my homework. or else my dog eats my homework..

for example my dog eats my homework everyday on a current basis is why masu would be used.

or else "masu" would be used for he is eating it right now.

i don't know too much about future tense... i don't remember coming across that.. i should pick up a book.. i suggest a book from tsui-cheng they also have a web address which i don't know if i'm allowed to post but it's basically their name .com ..

ga is usually put after informal objects to indicate the subject of a sentence, such as the dog... (inu "ga" shukudai)

i hope i answered some stuff ok...

PaulTB · 15 Sep 2004

Fantt said:
Pimsleur teaches the -masu verb forms.

daBigNY obviously hasn't got that far then. ☝

Fantt said:
It would be really cool if they could teach Hiragana. Since it's all audio, it might go something like this.

"First we'll start with a. Draw a horizontal line - not too long, not too short. Now, draw a vertical line through the middle of the horizontal line. Good. Now draw a sort of circular squiggly thing around the vertical line but not quite up to the horizontal line. Now, you've probably messed it all up, so scratch it out and try again."

I'd like to hear the description for how to draw 'me' or 're.' Great stuff.

Yeaaaas...

No seriously, while Pimsleur can have it's place I think it's fairly clear that there are things better done in other ways when learning Japanese.

God said:
i hope i answered some stuff ok...

I'm sure some of what you posted must have been OK.

... er probably ...

*thinks* Well I still think this bit

watashi no inu ga shukudai o tabemashita. - this would be my dog ate my homework

denotes two sentences one of which is a translation of the other even if it wouldn't have the same effect in Japanese as you'd expect the English version to have in English.

Fantt · 16 Sep 2004

Pimsleur, I think, has it's place as a good starting point. And that's pretty much how I'm using it. Supplementing what I learn with all my other texts and whatnot. Since I don't have any native speaking friends, it will have to suffice. For now.

daBigNY · 16 Sep 2004

well...

...i thought i asked a few simple questions but i guess not. in the end i am very grateful for the answers and i will use them.

as for pimsleur, it can be quite funny because the situations they put you in as a listener is stupid, crazy and a little funny. but if you use pimsleur along with other resources like a dictionary, online forums like this and talking with/to other native speakers.

until next time.

Fantt said:
Pimsleur, I think, has it's place as a good starting point. And that's pretty much how I'm using it. Supplementing what I learn with all my other texts and whatnot. Since I don't have any native speaking friends, it will have to suffice. For now.

check out meetup.com and search for japanese.

Fantt · 16 Sep 2004

I'm just scared that the Japanese meetup will just be a bunch of anime freaks (not that I'm not one, but still...) and one or two native speakers who'll be swamped. I might check it out anyways though.

daBigNY · 16 Sep 2004

that's

funny.

:joyful:

A few questions to ease my mind...

後輩

Manga Psychic

Envious of Nabeshin's Fro

☆彡

Manga Psychic

後輩

☆彡

運動不足

Envious of Nabeshin's Fro

先輩

Manga Psychic

Envious of Nabeshin's Fro

Manga Psychic

Envious of Nabeshin's Fro

I am paper.

Manga Psychic

Envious of Nabeshin's Fro

後輩

Envious of Nabeshin's Fro

後輩

Similar threads