質問がある。

Yukiko chan · 29 Dec 2008

I usually ask a dear friend with BA in Japanese, but she's very sick now, and can't answer my questions. You can start with any question you feel like answering.

ありがとうございました。

一つ / どの漢字は[なっさる]の漢字ですか。 (なっさる = to do)

二つ / What's the difference in connotation between 言うand 仰る(おっしゃる) ?

三つ / Is there a volitional form other than たい ?

四つ / I've seen the word 遊ばない used in the sense "being busy", as in 土曜日も日曜日も遊ばない. Is this a common use of the form with 遊ぶ ?

五つ / What's the difference in connotation between 有るand 在る, both being read あるand having apparently the same meaning ?

六つ / Can you give me an example of the use of たっぷり ?

七つ / Is ですa contraction of ではありあます ?

八つ/ I've seen this sentence in a grammar book, お土産の店沢山(が)ありあます, used without が. Is that correct ? How so ?

九つ / Can どちらbe used for more than two objects ?

十 / What's the difference between どちらand どちらか ? Examples ?

十一つ/ An exercise in the the same book said "....に言葉を入れなさい。". What's this 入れなさい thing ? I mean what form is it ? And is the kanji 入 read い or はい?

十二つ/ Another sentence from the book 少々お待ち下さい . What's this お for ? And is 待ち下さい more polite than 待って下さい ?

十三つ / Do 遠くありませんand 遠くないです have the same connotation ?

十四つ/ How do you say twentieth ? 二十? Is it read にとお ?

十五つ / What are the most common counters ? And how are they usually introduced in a sentence ?

Glenn · 29 Dec 2008

Gregory Iceson said:
I usually ask a dear friend with BA in Japanese, but she's very sick now, and can't answer my questions. You can start with any question you feel like answering.
ありがとうございました。

First, ありがとうございます can't be used for "thanks in advance," and ありがとうございました seems even stranger. I believe you wanted お願いします. Second, 十一つ and all the others above ten don't exist. It's just 十一, 十二, 十三, 十四, etc. They're read じゅういち, じゅうに, じゅうさん, じゅうよん.

Gregory Iceson said:
一つ / どの漢字は[なっさる]の漢字ですか。 (なっさる = to do)

It's なさる, and the kanji is 為, but you'll most likely not see it written that way unless you're reading older texts (like from around WWII and earlier). It's written 為さる.

Gregory Iceson said:
二つ / What's the difference in connotation between 言うand 仰る(おっしゃる) ?

おっしゃる is the 尊敬語 for 言う.

Gregory Iceson said:
三つ / Is there a volitional form other than たい ?

たい isn't what I would call a volitional form. I'm not sure what to call it, but it means "want to..." What's usually referred to as the volitional form is (よ)う, as in 食べよう, 行こう, and 帰ろう.

Gregory Iceson said:
四つ / I've seen the word 遊ばない used in the sense "being busy", as in 土曜日も日曜日も遊ばない. Is this a common use of the form with 遊ぶ ?

遊ぶ can mean "hang out" or "visit," as in "hang out with some friends" or "visit my parents." In that sense, if you aren't going to be hanging out on either Saturday or Sunday you're probably busy. I get the feeling it should be 遊べない, though ("can't hang out").

Gregory Iceson said:
五つ / What's the difference in connotation between 有るand 在る, both being read あるand having apparently the same meaning ?

The kanji are almost never used, so you don't need to really worry about it, but I would say that 有る has a sense of possession, whereas 在る is more like existence.

Gregory Iceson said:
六つ / Can you give me an example of the use of たっぷり ?

心配しない、心配しない。時間がたっぷりあるからね。

Gregory Iceson said:
七つ / Is ですa contraction of ではありあます ?

であります.

Gregory Iceson said:
八つ/ I've seen this sentence in a grammar book, お土産の店沢山(が)ありあます, used without が. Is that correct ? How so ?

Seems like it should be お土産の店が沢山あります. 沢山 is used adverbially, so it doesn't get a particle.

Gregory Iceson said:
九つ / Can どちらbe used for more than two objects ?

No.

Gregory Iceson said:
十 / What's the difference between どちらand どちらか ? Examples ?

どちらを選びますか。"Which one (out of these two) will you choose?"
どちらか選びなさい。"Choose one (of these two)."

どちら is "which one" (or "which way" or "who" depending on context) and どちらか is "one of (the two)."

Gregory Iceson said:
十一つ/ An exercise in the the same book said "....に言葉を入れなさい。". What's this 入れなさい thing ? I mean what form is it ? And is the kanji 入 read い or はい?

入れなさい is a command form of 入れる. It means "put in" or "insert," and is read いれなさい. You can tell to read it いれなさい because it's transitive, whereas 入る is intrasitive, so it would be 言葉が入る as opposed to 言葉を入れる.

Gregory Iceson said:
十二つ/ Another sentence from the book 少々お待ち下さい . What's this お for ? And is 待ち下さい more polite than 待って下さい ?

The お is part of the circumfix お...になる that is used to make 尊敬語 out of verbs. お待ちください is more polite than 待ってください, and there is no 待ちください.

Also, there is the circumfix お...する, which is used to make 謙譲語 out of verbs. So お待ちします is a very humble and polite way to say you will wait.

Gregory Iceson said:
十三つ / Do 遠くありませんand 遠くないです have the same connotation ?

遠くありません is slightly more formal and polite than 遠くないです.

Gregory Iceson said:
十四つ/ How do you say twentieth ? 二十? Is it read にとお ?

It's read にじゅう.

Gregory Iceson said:
十五つ / What are the most common counters ? And how are they usually introduced in a sentence ?

つ is probably the most common, but it depends on what you're counting.

猫が三匹部屋に入った。"Three cats entered the room."
車を三台買うつもりです。"I plan on buying three cars."

Mikawa Ossan · 29 Dec 2008

Hiya Glenn!

Glenn said:
I believe you wanted お願いします. Second, 十一つ and all the others above ten don't exist. It's just 十一, 十二, 十三, 十四, etc. They're read じゅういち, じゅうに, じゅうさん, じゅうよん.

I'll go further. When writing a list such aas this, using 一つ, etc. is not used. You could use 一つ目、二つ目, etc., however.

おっしゃる is the 尊敬語 for 言う.

尊敬語 being an honorific, of course.

たい isn't what I would call a volitional form. I'm not sure what to call it, but it means "want to..." What's usually referred to as the volitional form is (よ)う, as in 食べよう, 行こう, and 帰ろう.

I call it the "wanna form".

It's read にじゅう.

Unless you're talking about dates, as in the twentieth of March, in which case 二十日 or more commonly 20日 would be read はつか.

つ is probably the most common, but it depends on what you're counting.

猫が三匹部屋に入った。"Three cats entered the room."
車を三台買うつもりです。"I plan on buying three cars."

In other words, just because it's the most common doesn't necessarily make it the most appropriate (or even appropriate at all!) all of the time. The cat example is a particularly good example of this.

Yukiko chan · 29 Dec 2008

Glenn, thank you very much for your patience and the effort you deployed to answer my questions.

Mikawa Ossan, thank you.

I have other questions but I'll leave them to some other time.

ありがとうございました。

JimmySeal · 30 Dec 2008

Gregory Iceson said:
七つ / Is ですa contraction of ではありあます ?

です is most likely a contraction of でございます, but may also be derived from で候（でそう）. It is not a contraction of であります or ではあります.

LukeSettle · 5 Jan 2009

ahaha wow.
i got alot just from reading the corrections lol

Yukiko chan · 23 Jan 2009

JimmySeal said:
です is most likely a contraction of でございます, but may also be derived from で候（でそう）. It is not a contraction of であります or ではあります.

Why is it so? I've suggested ではあります as the expanded form because the negative form of です is ではありません...
And what is で候 ? Couldn't find it in the dictionary.

Mikawa Ossan said:
I call it the "wanna form".

Can I know the subtle difference between the "wanna form" and the volitional form? Nee-chan told me that you can only use the former when you talk about what you want, not what others want. Is that all?

Thanks, Greg

maushan3 · 24 Jan 2009

Zoon van Ijs said:
Why is it so? I've suggested ではあります as the expanded form because the negative form of です is ではありません...
And what is で候 ? Couldn't find it in the dictionary.
Can I know the subtle difference between the "wanna form" and the volitional form? Nee-chan told me that you can only use the former when you talk about what you want, not what others want. Is all?
Thanks, Greg

ーたい form is when oneself wants to do something. If you want something physical, you saw 「」が欲しい. You can also say 「」と期待（きたい）している which means I wish (something) happens. This forms is when talking about oneself.

Now, that is true that when talking about what other people want, you use...
You drop the final い in たい on any verb and add がっている.
例：山田さんはドイツへ行きたがっています。

Mauricio

Toritoribe · 24 Jan 2009

Zoon van Ijs said:
Why is it so? I've suggested ではあります as the expanded form because the negative form of です is ではありません...

ではあります is not same to であります. It's used to express different meaning.

Zoon van Ijs said:
And what is で候 ?

An archaic word used in 狂言.

Zoon van Ijs said:
Can I know the subtle difference between the "wanna form" and the volitional form?

Japanese verb conjugation - Wikipedia

Usage

In general, the volitional form expresses intention, such as in these cases:

In volitional ("let's" or "I shall") statements: 勉強しよう benkyō shiyō: "Let's study" or "I shall study".
To ask volitional ("shall we") questions: 行こうか ikō ka: "Shall (we) go?"
To express what one is thinking of doing, via 思う omou: 買おうと思う kaō to omou: "(I) am thinking of buying (it)".
In the form しようとする shiyō to suru: be about to or be trying to. 犬が吠えようとしている Inu ga hoeyō to shite iru: "The dog is about to bark."

Zoon van Ijs said:
you can only use the former when you talk about what you want, not what others want.

That's right, except used in hearsay, guess form, interrogative sentence, or like that.
e.g.
彼は日本に行きたいそうだ。
彼は日本に行きたいらしい。
日本に行きたいですか？

You can use the present form of volitional verbs to express the speaker's intention, too.
e.g.
今日中にやります。
必ず行きます。
------------
EDIT:
Oops, sorry maushan-san.

maushan3 · 24 Jan 2009

Toritoribe said:
EDIT:
Oops, sorry maushan-san.

Don't worry, we're out to help one another.

I always thought it was okay to say to a person something like 行きたい？and I remember Japanese people using with me the same thing, but then a teacher told me it was wrong and rude to use たい form when talking about someone else other than oneselves so I now just say something like 行く？instead.

Mauricio

Glenn · 24 Jan 2009

It's OK to ask someone in your inner circle (ウチの相手) something like 行きたい？ if you're asking purely what their feelings about something are, or if it's an invitational yes/no question you know they'll answer "yes" to, like 取ってきて欲しい？ or 一緒に来たい？. If it's someone who is not in your inner circle (ソトの相手) then it's considered an invasion of their emotional territory to use 〜たい, and you should instead say something like これもコピーしましょうか (i.e., use the volitional form).

*Taken from 中上級を教える人のための日本語文法ハンドブック（コラム、２４１頁）

I must say, though, it seems unlikely that you'll ever really know that someone will answer "yes" to anything, although you can feel really confident about it. It seems like they could have worded that better.

Toritoribe · 24 Jan 2009

In addition, 日本に行く/行きます？ is just asking the listener's plan, not asking his/her intention.

Yukiko chan · 8 Mar 2009

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply to my questions. I was too busy to post here lately..

Glenn said:
if you're asking purely what their feelings about something are, or if it's an invitational yes/no question you know they'll answer "yes" to, like 取ってきて欲しい？

I don't understand this sentence really.. and where's the ～たい form?

Glenn senpai said:
*Taken from 中上級を教える人のための日本語文法ハンドブック（コラム、２４１頁）

And how would 中上級 be read? ちゅうじょうきゅう?

JimmySeal said:
です is most likely a contraction of でございます, but may also be derived from で候（でそう）. It is not a contraction of であります or ではあります.

Wouldn't it be the same if it were a contraction of でございます or であります, since ございます is just a honorific form of あります ?

Yukiko chan · 8 Mar 2009

こんばんは

I was studying Japanese two days ago, and got a bit confused about the neutral and honorific forms. I just wondered if it was possible to use a honorific verb like "ござる" or "おる" in the neutral form as a main verb; if yes, then what sort of connotation would it give? So far I've seen them used only in the polite form.

Also, concerning the politeness particles "o" and "go", how do I know when to use one or the other? Do they have the same connotation? Is their use specific to some nouns instead of others?

Examples: お医者(いしゃ) さま (doctor), and ご滞在 (たいざい) (stay, sojourn)

And finally, what's the difference between the following two structures (if there's any)?

1/れんようけい of verb 1 + に + neutral form of verb 2

and

2/ て form of verb 1 + neutral form of verb 2

Verb 2 is mostly a movement verb like 行く or 来る

Examples:

1/来年の冬日本に 遊びにくる 時お金がふえています. (next winter, when you will be back to Japan, your money would have increased)

2/ のこった日本円を あずけていく ことにします. (I've decided to go put the remaining yens in a bank)

I don't have the book with me here, so I've just translated the sentences by myself. If there's any mistake tell me.

お願します !!

Toritoribe · 8 Mar 2009

Zoon van Ijs said:
how would 中上級 be read? ちゅうじょうきゅう?

Right. That means "中級、上級."

Zoon van Ijs said:
Wouldn't it be the same if it were a contraction of でございます or であります, since ございます is just a honorific form of あります ?

So, do you think です is also the contraction of である just because ある is the plane/informal form of ございます?

Zoon van Ijs said:
I just wondered if it was possible to use a honorific verb like "ござる" or "おる" in the neutral form as a main verb; if yes, then what sort of connotation would it give? So far I've seen them used only in the polite form.

Possible, but they would sound as samurai words.

Zoon van Ijs said:
Also, concerning the politeness particles "o" and "go", how do I know when to use one or the other? Do they have the same connotation? Is their use specific to some nouns instead of others?

Basically, the prefix お is for native Japanese words, ご is for Sino-Japanese words..

Zoon van Ijs said:
what's the difference between the following two structures (if there's any)?
1/れんようけい of verb 1 + に + neutral form of verb 2
and
2/ て form of verb 1 + neutral form of verb 2
Verb 2 is mostly a movement verb like 行く or 来る

Too wide to generalize. Some chapters would be needed in textbooks even for the case "～ていく/くる."

質問がある。

Yukiko chan

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Glenn

一切皆苦

Mikawa Ossan

いかんわ！

Yukiko chan

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JimmySeal

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LukeSettle

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Yukiko chan

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maushan3

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Toritoribe

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質問がある。