腋に抱え

Yzlot · 17 Jan 2014

Hi everyone. It's been a while since I posted here, but I hope you guys are still doing well.

ひとつは、竜槍、鰐つきの長さ十メトルもの長槍だ。当然重量もあるため、構えるときは、腋に抱え、鞍に吊るされた輪っかで柄を固定する。

I'm a bit unsure of the role of 腋に抱え in the above sentence. Would it be
a) an action
or b) a positional modifier for 輪っか?

I think b) is the more likely choice, but I would like to confirm this. Thanks in advance.
.

undrentide · 17 Jan 2014

It's (a). There are two actions to take to hold the 長槍.

（長槍を）構えるときは、
(1) （長槍を）腋に抱え、
(2) 鞍に吊るされた輪っかで（長槍の）柄を固定する。

Morphling · 17 Jan 2014

腋に抱え is the same as 腋に抱えて. Continuation of sentence.

Yzlot · 18 Jan 2014

Alright, thanks undrentide and Morphling for confirming I was wrong.

腋に抱え is the same as 腋に抱えて. Continuation of sentence.

I'll admit that I sometimes still have some difficulty differentiating nuances between stem form and -te form and determining which is better to use in a given scenario. But you mean 'the same' strictly in the role of continuing a sentence, and not in nuance, right? Because changing forms here seems to give the sentence a completely different meaning.

Toritoribe · 18 Jan 2014

構えるときは、腋に抱え、鞍に吊るされた輪っかで柄を固定する and 構えるときは、腋に抱えて、鞍に吊るされた輪っかで柄を固定する are competely the same in meaning. The only difference is that the latter sounds a little bit colloquial. 腋に抱えた鞍に吊るされた輪っか changes the meaning. In this case, 腋に抱えた modifies 鞍.

BTW, isn't 鰐[わに]つきの a typo of 鍔[つば]つきの?

Yzlot · 18 Jan 2014

Toritoribe said:
構えるときは、腋に抱え、鞍に吊るされた輪っかで柄を固定する and 構えるときは、腋に抱えて、鞍に吊るされた輪っかで柄を固定する are competely the same in meaning. The only difference is that the latter sounds a little bit colloquial. 腋に抱えた鞍に吊るされた輪っか changes the meaning. In this case, 腋に抱えた modifies 鞍.

BTW, isn't 鰐[わに]つきの a typo of 鍔[つば]つきの?

Ah, sorry that is indeed a typo.

Errr, now I'm a bit mind blown. I was under the impression that 構えるときは、腋に抱え、鞍に吊るされた輪っかで柄を固定する meant
"...such that as a rider(?) readied himself, he would carry the spear under his arms or fix it onto the saddle ring."

and 構えるときは、腋に抱えて、鞍に吊るされた輪っかで柄を固定する meant
"...such that as a rider? readied himself, he would carry the spear under his arms and then fix it onto the saddle ring.

I'd like to ask one additional question as well.
1) Is this sentence a generalization, referring to anyone wielding the 竜槍? Or is it referring to the specific case of this character currently wielding it? For additional context, the previous sentence before those provided is: 兵から渡される二種類の槍を手にする。

It's possible that I mistook the subject here, hence my confusion.

Toritoribe · 18 Jan 2014

Just for clarification, isn't 鞍 a typo, either? 鞍 can make sense if only riders use 竜槍, but it might refer to something they wear if spearmen in general use 竜槍.

腋に抱え and 腋に抱えて both mean "and then".

1)
It's the former.

Yzlot · 18 Jan 2014

鞍 isn't a typo here. The situation is quite similar to jousting, so I think it's safe to say only riders use the 竜槍.

I thought masu-stem could be used to list out one of several options in the case of generalizations, but it seems I was mistaken.

But I still can't understand the reasoning of why they would go through the trouble of holding the lance under their arms, and then suddenly fix it on, when they can fix it on from the very beginning. They don't move, nor are there signs of any actions being performed between 'holding it under their arms' and fixing it onto the saddle ring, so what's the point of even holding it under the arm? It just seems easier skip the first step, or only do one of the actions.

Well, that was probably most confused me about the sentence. Thanks a lot for clarifying Toritoribe.

Toritoribe · 18 Jan 2014

Two actions are done at the same time, or rather, the order of the actions should be; first, passing the hilt of the lance through the ring, and then holding the lance under their arms. Since the length of the lance is 10m, it would be impossible or at least quite hard to pass the hilt through the ring while holding it under their arms. Well, I should have answered just "and" instead of "and then".

Isn't it more stable to fix the lancer with two points(the ring and their arms) than with just one of them?

腋に抱え

Yzlot

先輩

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Morphling

先輩

Yzlot

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Yzlot

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Yzlot

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

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