に/へ difference

[Morphling]

山口大学より

http://petit.lib.yamaguchi-u.ac.jp/G0000006y2j2/file/19616/20120515154813/C060035000006.pdf

確かではないが、日本語文法ハンドブックにも似てようなことも。

 

[Toritoribe]

I see. Interesting. I'm not fully agree with those considerations, though. For instance, in a sentence 妹は田中さんにプレゼントを差し上げた, 田中さん is obviously higher than 妹, nevertheless I don't think 妹は田中さんへプレゼントを差し上げた is more appropriate than に. Of course I might belong to "minority".

 

[Morphling]

にとへの使い分けは個人差があるから、正確な答えがないというわけだね。

 

[Mike Cash]

So to sum it all up for the OP, then, may we say that he can safely accept his textbook's explanation of interchangeability and dedicate his efforts toward other points rather than spend time trying to reach a conclusive understanding of whatever extraordinarily fine distinction there may or may not be, depending on the era, area, and unknowable personal preferences of whomever he happens to be speaking to at the moment?

 

[nekojita]

Since there are lots of cases where に is used to mark something which is not a destination even with motion verbs, e.g. ～しに行く form, where へ cannot be swapped in, it seems like the best route for a beginner would be to be aware of へ but use に themselves for any case where they're unsure if へ is a possibility.

But yes, I'd agree that there's no real difference in meaning.

 

[Mike Cash]

In the context of uses presented THUS FAR in his beginner's textbook, and which is all that needed be considered in addressing his concerns, as the text will in due course introduce any exceptions or caveats later on, then the answer to my question is a "Yes", then? And we needn't have done him the disservice of dragging in all sorts of things which at his current level are utterly useless and irrelevant...nor the rudeness of indulging in a need to impress ourselves by making remarks in Japanese which the OP is a looong way from being able to read.

All my life my friends and family have chided me for over-answering questions, but even my worst can't compare to how insanely beyond what the OP needed or could possibly make the slightest use of this thread has gone. It has been not at all about allaying the OP's concern or giving him an answer appropriate to his needs and instead has been all about self-indulgent vigorous academic weenie-wagging. I don't think we've ever had a thread where a beginning learner has been so poorly served as in this one.

We should tailor answers to fit the inquirer, not our own egos.

 

[MRubingh]

Hello @Morphling さん,

メンノーさん、what I was trying to say is in practice the 2 have little difference but indeed on a subconscious level there is some difference between the two in nuance but it is very subtle and if you are a beginner it probably doesn't matter as much.

When expressing direction of an action, both に and へ are interchangeable. However nuance wise they are subtly different.

Basically に has a more closeness feel and へ feels more distant.

学校に行く and 学校へ行く both mean go to school but the former implies you go to school and study/work there where as the latter merely expresses the fact you are moving towards direction of school but not necessarily study there or have anything to do with the school.

Subsequently people tend to use へ when expressing action affecting someone with higher status and に to family and friends. This is not a hard fast rule though. Merely an observation. There is a study done on this.

When expressing 佐藤さんは田中さん へ・に プレゼントをあげた。the overwhelming majority of native speakers chose に.

However when the study swapped these out with 生徒が校長先生 へ・に 花束を差し上げた。へ got the majority.

In both cases technically either is correct but subconsciously this is how the two are interpreted differently by a majority of Japanese speakers.

That is absolutely interesting.

Again this is not a technical grammar thing but more reflect of society's perception and personal preference.

There is an overlap between on the one side grammar, and on the other side meaning and language usage. These two sides do not exist in complete isolation.

Grammar affects meaning and language usage (obviously!).

And I think that also reversely, meaning and language usage affect grammar. Because, (IMO) language is not a static thing but is actually created by the community of speakers. Suppose the percentage of people clearly preferring に for one purpose only and へ for another distinct purpose increases and reaches 90% of the speaker population, then that would create a change of grammar in the language, namely a clear grammar rule that に can only be used for (some cases) and へ only for (other cases).

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Sorry for my absence in this thread yesterday, but I got a little sidetracked in another thread. I hope still to come back to the dictionary definitions you gave.

With best regards,
Menno ( メンノー )