寝るのも寮 / と

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

2,431

22

• 22 Oct 2013

• #1

Hi,


1. 教室でも寮生と一緒に勉強し、寝るのも寮、自由時間は 寮の談話室で過ごすことになります。

I'm not certain about the grammar of 寝るのも寮, or how it fits into the sentence as a whole. Does 寝るの mean "the place where you sleep"? Is 寝るのも寮 saying that 寮 is also the place where you sleep (as well as serving the other purposes mentioned)? Since 寝るのも寮 has no main verb, is it considered a complete phrase? Is it an abbreviation of a longer phrase? For instance, would 寝るのも寮で make sense in that position?


2. みんなあまり話もしなかったが、ハーマイオニーだけは、どの呪文が試験に出るんだろうと、今までに覚えた全部の呪文について早口でつぶやいて いた。

What is the purpose of と?

 

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

18 Jan 2006

3,652

310

• 22 Oct 2013

• #2

1. The hidden subject of this sentence is 生徒 (students).

2. To quote どの呪文が試験に出るんだろう.

 

M

Morphling

先輩

3 Apr 2013

273

32

• 22 Oct 2013

• #3

寝るのも寮 / と

1. 寝るのも寮 is abbreviated typical of Japanese. The full clause that is implied is 寝るのも寮でやります or something to that effect.

2. だろうと or 推量+と is a set grammar phrase similar to でも.

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 22 Oct 2013

• #4

1)
Yeah, 寝るのも寮 can be considered an abbreviation of 寝るのも寮で or 寝るのも寮だし.

2)
Undrentide-san's answer is correct.

"Noun / The stem of a na-adjective + だろう + と" or "the volitional form of verb + と" means "even (if)". "Verb + （ん）だろう + と" can't have this meaning, thus, the form should be 出ようと, not 出る（ん）だろうと, for that meaning. 試験に出るのがどの呪文だろうと can mean "even" depending on the context, since 呪文 is a noun.

 

M

Morphling

先輩

3 Apr 2013

273

32

• 22 Oct 2013

• #5

寝るのも寮 / と

Thanks for the correction but what is the と corresponding to? つぶやく？seems kind of disjointed or is it implying と思って？

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 23 Oct 2013

• #6

Yeah, どの呪文が試験に出るんだろう is not the words she actually murmured. と思って, と思いながら, とでもいうような様子で or something like that is omitted.

 

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

2,431

22

• 23 Oct 2013

• Thread starter
• #7

Thanks,

1. So does 寝るの refer to the place where one sleeps or to the action of sleeping? I originally thought it was the former because the latter can't literally be 寮, but maybe that's too strict?

2. I am still slightly confused by this. I understand the part どの呪文が試験に出るんだろうと・・・早口でつぶやいて いた, and I understand 今までに覚えた全部の呪文について individually, and I can grasp the broad overall meaning, but I don't fully understand how the latter phrase can be inserted between と and つぶやいていた or its precise relationship with the rest of the sentence. Is 今までに覚えた全部の呪文について adverbial?

 

M

Morphling

先輩

3 Apr 2013

273

32

• 23 Oct 2013

• #8

寝るのも寮 / と

You are not breaking down the sentence correctly. Confused me as well as there is a lot of implying done. If you go verbose, it should read something like

みんなあまり話もしなかったが、ハーマイオニーだけは、どの呪文が試験に出るんだろうと思いながら、今までに覚えた全部の呪文について早口でつぶやいていた。

As for number 1, you are correct in your interpretation.

 

Glenn

一切皆苦

8 Jan 2004

7,842

200

• 23 Oct 2013

• #9

1. 寝るの is like nominalized 寝る, similar to 寝ること. Perhaps if it were phrased 寝るのも寮でだ would be helpful, although while I know I've heard にだ in combination, I don't think I've ever heard でだ in combination. Then again... would 寝る take に instead of で? It seems to be more like 立つ or 座る here (or 横たわる, to get more to the meaning) than, say, 眠る, so perhaps it would be 寝るのも寮にだ. Hmm...

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 23 Oct 2013

• #10

1)
の is considered a pronoun for location/place here.
e.g.
彼女が生まれたのは日本です。
私が行きたいのは東京です。

In the examples above, の doesn't nominalize the action and is not interchangeable with こと.

When the target is the thing they sleep on, e.g. 布団, ベッド or 床, both で and に can be used. If it refers to location such like 部屋, 家 or 公園, で is used. Although I think で is not a particle but the -te form of copula here.

2)
どの呪文が試験に出るんだろう is not what she actually murmured, as I wrote. It's her voice in mind if the narration is written on the point of view of third-person, as Morphling-san wrote, or the description of her appearance if it's written on the point of view of Harry or someone other than Hermione. (とでもいうような様子で is the one for the latter case.)

 

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

2,431

22

• 23 Oct 2013

• Thread starter
• #11

Thanks everyone, I think I get it now.

 

Glenn

一切皆苦

8 Jan 2004

7,842

200

• 23 Oct 2013

• #12

Toritoribe said:

1)
の is considered a pronoun for location/place here.
e.g.
彼女が生まれたのは日本です。
私が行きたいのは東京です

Click to expand...

Ah, yes. I think I remember something about that now. Kind of like the "one" interpretation, except for a location here. That makes sense.