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大変さ

healer

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I understand 大変 is a な-adjective.
I have learnt い-adjective can be nominalized by replacing い with さ.
Does this rule apply to な-adjective as well?
 

Toritoribe

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Yes.

さ の解説
[接尾]
1 形容詞・形容動詞の語幹、一部の助動詞の語幹に準じるものに付いて名詞をつくり、…の状態であること、…の程度であること、…の性質であることの意を表す。「つらさ」「美しさ」「静かさ」「会いたさ」

 

mdchachi

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No, you can also call a na-adjective a na-noun because it acts like a noun already. So it doesn't require any trick to nominalize.
 

Toritoribe

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I already explained this to healer-san in his previous thread, but the stem of a typical na-adjective doesn't perform as a noun. Of course there are na-adjectives whose stems are a noun, but it's not applied to all na-adjectives. Please refer to the following posts.

大変 belongs to typical na-adjectives as same as 静か, so the suffix さ is needed to change the stem into a noun.

×大変がある。
○大変さがある。
×大変を減らす。
○大変さを減らす。

Incidentally, even when the stem of a na-adjective can work as a noun, the suffix さ can add a different meaning to the stem as a noun. For example, while 自由 means "freedom/the state of being freedom", 自由さ can mean "the degree of freedom", similar to 自由度.
e.g.
戦前と戦後では自由さが違う。

戦前と戦後では自由が違う。is also grammatical, but the meaning is not the same as the original ("the degree/level of freedom is different" vs. "freedom is different").

Similarly, 健康さ means "the degree of health/how healthy the mackerel is" in the following sentence, and it can't be replaced with 健康.

目利きマイスターは、市場に陸揚げされた八戸鯖の姿を見るだけで、脂の乗り具合や新鮮さ、健康さを見分けることができます。
 

healer

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I already explained this to healer-san in his previous thread,
Could you please tell me which previous thread you’re referring to?

the stem of a typical na-adjective doesn't perform as a noun.
What do you mean by typical na-adjective, most na-adjectives?
In the case of 大変, it is both a na-adjective and a noun according to the dictionary I use, does it mean 大変 is not a typical na-adjective?

×大変がある。
Why is this wrong since 大変 is a noun as well though it might simply refer to the nature or characteristic only, not the degree of the nature specified?

By the way can the noun of i-adjective ended with さ be used as well to refer to the degree of the nature specified?
Thanks Toritoribe-san.
 

Toritoribe

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Could you please tell me which previous thread you’re referring to?

What do you mean by typical na-adjective, most na-adjectives?
Please reread the thread I linked above. I don't want to repeat the same discussion.

In the case of 大変, it is both a na-adjective and a noun according to the dictionary I use, does it mean 大変 is not a typical na-adjective?
As I wrote in the thread, the definitions/classifications in dictionaries are useless for this matter. Notice that it's "whether your dictionary says it's a noun or not, 大変 is not a noun because 大変がある(or 大変を減らす) is ungrammatical", and not "大変がある is grammatical because 大変 is classified into nouns in your dictionary".
 

healer

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the definitions/classifications in dictionaries are useless
Thanks Toritoribe-san for your patience and tolerance. I gather I can’t rely on dictionaries for everything. I will read the recommended threads again and again when I get a chance. Thanks again.
 
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