助数詞

So, in some cases counters have adverbial usage. For example:
「腐ったみかんを3個捨てた」
Verbs are modified directly without the need for an additional particle.

1) Now, why can't we say:
「「朝ごはんは」みかんに３個する」
In theory ３個 should be able to modify する by itself, but the sentence sounds unnatural.
Can we say 「みかん３個にする」? If so, why?
Or is it always 「３個のみかんにする」?

2) Another example. Is the following sentence grammatical?
「あなたを一人愛する」
Why do we say 「あなた一人を愛する」 instead? Is it only a matter of 語感？

3) And why can't we say 「腐ったみかん３個を捨てた」 while we can say 「あなた一人を愛する」. Both ３個 and 一人 are 名詞的用法 instead of 副詞的用法 in this case, no?

When the particles は, が or を follows みかん, 3個のみかん, みかん3個 or みかんは/が/を3個 are all valid (the nuance is a bit different, though), but other particles such like に, へ or から can't be inserted between みかん and 3個. In this case, 3個 is interpreted as something to work on みかん, not the counter of みかん.

ひとり can be interpreted as an adverb 一人/独りで in あなたを一人愛する. あなた is always "one", therefore there usually is no need to say 一人, so あなた一人 is considered an emphasized expression just like あなただけ, not just a counter.

Here's another example.
敵を一人倒した。
敵 can be plural, thus, 一人 is a counter here, so 一人の敵を or 敵一人を are also valid.

Toritoribe said:

When the particles は, が or を follows みかん, 3個のみかん, みかん3個 or みかんは/が/を3個 are all valid (the nuance is a bit different, though), but other particles such like に, へ or から can't be inserted between みかん and 3個. In this case, 3個 is interpreted as something to work on みかん, not the counter of みかん.

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Got it. Thanks.

Toritoribe said:

ひとり can be interpreted as an adverb 一人/独りで in あなたを一人愛する. あなた is always "one", therefore there usually is no need to say 一人, so あなた一人 is considered an emphasized expression just like あなただけ, not just a counter.

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You mean it could be interpreted as 「あなたを一人（で）愛する」? But it's still assumed that there's an abbreviated 「で」 there?
Yeah it doesn't make sense in normal usage, since あなた is a singular pronoun. Although, it could be used in psychology or philosophy. I tried googling 「自分が二人いる」 and got a reasonable amount of hits, mainly psychology related. F.E.: "22. 状況が変わるとまったく別の行動をするので、自分が二人いるように感じてしまう。"

Toritoribe said:

Here's another example.
敵を一人倒した。
敵 can be plural, thus, 一人 is a counter here, so 一人の敵を or 敵一人を are also valid.

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Wait... I can say 「敵一人を」？So:

敵を一人倒した。 （副詞的用法）
一人の敵を倒した。 （名詞的用法）
敵一人を倒した。 （What usage is this? 名詞的用法？）

All of these are valid?

My friend (a native speaker) once said that - I'll just copy/paste the content:

"And, first of all, the usage of this 助詞 "を" is wrong grammatically. You can say "もうメールで 一個 例を 挙げたよ", but you can't say "一個を挙げたよ", because "一個" in this sentence is acting as an adverb, not a noun.
An explanation of this usage is here; read the clause 【副詞的用法（数量詞の遊離）】 on this page.
助数詞 - Wikipedia"

So, in fact, I CAN say. 「（例）一個を挙げた」？

UsoToChinmoku said:

You mean it could be interpreted as 「あなたを一人（で）愛する」? But it's still assumed that there's an abbreviated 「で」 there?

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一人/独り works as an adverb.

ひとり【一人／独り】
2［副］
１ 物事をその人だけでするさま。単独で。「―読書に励む」「―物思いにふける」

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ひとり【一人／独り】の意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書

UsoToChinmoku said:

Yeah it doesn't make sense in normal usage, since あなた is a singular pronoun. Although, it could be used in psychology or philosophy. I tried googling 「自分が二人いる」 and got a reasonable amount of hits, mainly psychology related.

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Even in that unusual context, you can't use 自分二人. Again, ひとり in あなたひとり/自分ひとり is not an ordinary counter. It's more likely "only/just", as I wrote.

UsoToChinmoku said:

Wait... I can say 「敵一人を」？So:

敵を一人倒した。 （副詞的用法）
一人の敵を倒した。 （名詞的用法）
敵一人を倒した。 （What usage is this? 名詞的用法？）

All of these are valid?

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Yes, those are all correct. 例を一つ is more common, but 例一つを is also valid especially when a clause/phrase modifies 例.
e.g.
彼女は検索結果から具体例二つを（＝具体例を二つ）抜きだして示し、彼に反論した。

Toritoribe said:

一人/独り works as an adverb.

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Oh. Sorry, I got a bit confused since the counter usage is supposed to be adverbial as well. Didn't know it could be used without a particle this way.

Toritoribe said:

Even in that unusual context, you can't use 自分二人. Again, ひとり in あなたひとり/自分ひとり is not an ordinary counter. It's more likely "only/just", as I wrote.

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Yeah, I understand that it's not a counter. I just wanted to point out that there could be situations were even singular pronouns require some sort of a counter. So, even though you can't say 「自分二人がいる」, you still can say 「二人の自分がいる/自分が二人いる」?

Toritoribe said:

Yes, those are all correct. 例を一つ is more common, but 例一つを is also valid especially when a clause/phrase modifies 例.

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After what my friend told me I used to think it's ungrammatical
Could you explain how it works grammatically? I mean 「一つの例を挙げる」 is clearly a noun phrase and 「例を一つ挙げる」is adverbial since it directly modifies the noun without a particle. But what about the 「例一つを挙げる」 structure. Since you can't use を on adverbs, am I to assume this is the 名詞的用法? But if it is how does it modify 例 without a particle then?

UsoToChinmoku said:

So, even though you can't say 「自分二人がいる」, you still can say 「二人の自分がいる/自分が二人いる」?

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Yes, since 自分 and みかん/敵 are different.

UsoToChinmoku said:

Could you explain how it works grammatically? I mean 「一つの例を挙げる」 is clearly a noun phrase and 「例を一つ挙げる」is adverbial since it directly modifies the noun without a particle. But what about the 「例一つを挙げる」 structure. Since you can't use を on adverbs, am I to assume this is the 名詞的用法? But if it is how does it modify 例 without a particle then?

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It would be 同格 "apposition" of the nounal usage.

Thanks as usual. Appreciate the help.