前 and 先

charusu · 31 Oct 2011

Good Evening Everybody,

While looking through some of my JLPT 4 flashcards I came upon two kanji that are giving me some trouble, 前 and 先. It seems that they both mean 'before (ahead, previous, former)' - and in example sentences they seem to both be used temporally and spacially. Can somebody please compare and contrast these two kanji? Which one would be used in phrases like 'eat before leaving' and 'the house [located] before the river', and 'the job that I had before'?

どうもありがとございます！

Toritoribe · 31 Oct 2011

It's safe to use 前 for all your examples. Especially, 川の先の/にある家 can have the meaning completely opposite to 川の前の/にある家. 川の前の家 just shows that the house is beside a river, whereas 川の先の家 means that the house is located ACROSS the river from the standpoint of the speaker.

どうもありがとうございます！;-)
FYI, ありがとう can't be used in advance in Japanese. よろしくお願いします is an equivalent to "Thanks in advance".

charusu · 31 Oct 2011

どうもありがとうございます！

Ichigokun · 9 Nov 2011

前 and 先 are actually quite different, but as Toritoribe said, it's safer to use 前. 前 can be used for both physical objects and time. Whilst 先 can only be used for time.

There are actually many Japanese train stations which add a 前 behind to specify it's in front of which place.

Mike Cash · 9 Nov 2011

Ichigokun said:
前 and 先 are actually quite different, but as Toritoribe said, it's safer to use 前. 前 can be used for both physical objects and time. Whilst 先 can only be used for time.

Where on earth did you get the idea that 先 can only be used for time? It is used for describing location of physical objects as well.

The problem with these two is that we early on learn that 先 means "before" in English, which is an inaccurate oversimplification. It is best to think of it as meaning "beyond" some referenced point. In the case of time, it can be either before something or after it. But it is always on the other side of a referenced point as viewed from your current position on the timeline and not from the viewpoint of seeing the timeline as unidirectional, starting from the earliest point and continuing to the latest point. "Before" is always an absolute reference, while 先 is a relative reference. Once you realize that, it's dead easy.

Ichigokun · 9 Nov 2011

Mike Cash said:
Where on earth did you get the idea that ﾂ静ｦ can only be used for time? It is used for describing location of physical objects as well.
The problem with these two is that we early on learn that ﾂ静ｦ means "before" in English, which is an inaccurate oversimplification. It is best to think of it as meaning "beyond" some referenced point. In the case of time, it can be either before something or after it. But it is always on the other side of a referenced point as viewed from your current position on the timeline and not from the viewpoint of seeing the timeline as unidirectional, starting from the earliest point and continuing to the latest point. "Before" is always an absolute reference, while ﾂ静ｦ is a relative reference. Once you realize that, it's dead easy.

Hmm.. That is from the Chinese Hanzi usage point of view, I'm sorry I thought that Japanese kanji and Chinese had the same meaning since I had no problem in understanding Japanese kanji so far..

Toritoribe · 9 Nov 2011

So, you are lucky that you have never been asked to send ﾅｽﾃｨﾅｽ窶? by Japanese people so far.

charusu · 10 Nov 2011

That's making sense Mike - thanks!

So 前 is making an absolute reference, and that's why it is used in statements like "5 minutes ago" - because we're talking about an absolute point in time. (Right?)

So if I were to say "[I'll eat] 5 minutes before/after/[beyond the time when] you leave" I would need 先 because I plan on eating relative to when you are leaving. (Right?) What about "[I ate] 5 minutes before you left", would that still use 先 since you have already left (at an absolute point in time)?

I am trying to think of some absolute and relative example with space but can't think of any, would you happen to be able to come up with a spacial example of when each would be, and when each could not be used?

Thank you very much!

Toritoribe · 10 Nov 2011

1. 彼より先にここに着いた。＝彼より前に/早くここに着いた。
I arrived here before him./I had arrived here before he came.

2. こっちより先に彼があきらめるだろう。＝こっちより前に/早く彼があきらめるだろう。
He will give up earlier than us/before we give up.

3. 今から一ヶ月先に試験がある。＝今から一ヶ月後に試験がある。
I have an exam a month later from now.

4. 明日から先の予定がない。＝明日から後の予定がない。
I don't have any plans after tomorrow.

先 in the first two, meaning "former in the order", can be used both for past and future, whereas 先 in the last two, meaning "later/after", is hardly used for past. In contrast, 前 and 後 are ALWAYS refers to former and later than the reference point in the time line, respectively.

spatial example
川の先の家
a house located on the far side of the reference point(river in this case) from the viewpoint of the speaker

川の手前の家
a house located on the near side of the river

前 and 先

charusu

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

charusu

先輩

Ichigokun

後輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Ichigokun

後輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

charusu

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Similar threads