兼ねる

m477 · 22 Oct 2004

Let me see if I've got this straight.

The definition listed in the EDICT database is a bit confusing:
兼ねる (suf) to hold (position), to serve, to be unable, to be beyond one's ability, to combine with, to use with, cannot, to hesitate to, to be impatient

But what I gather from my grammar book the meanings like [to be unable, to be beyond one's ability] are ONLY when it is used as a suffix. Is that correct?

Also, the sentence below appears in a book I'm reading. Does my English translation of it reflect the correct meaning?
事務局長も案員を兼ねている。
The Secretary-General is doubling as a committee member.

Mike Cash · 22 Oct 2004

The suffix use of it is sort of counterintuitive, in that the postitive form indicates a negative.

"Doubling as" looks alright. But "also serves as" might be better. Not a heck of a lot of actual practical difference between the two, though.

You can also see that kanji in compounds. For example, in my company we use trailers which can carry only 20 foot containers, trailers which can carry only 40 foot containers, and trailers which can carry either of them. We refer to these as 兼用.

PaulTB · 22 Oct 2004

mikecash said:
You can also see that kanji in compounds. For example, in my company we use trailers which can carry only 20 foot containers, trailers which can carry only 40 foot containers, and trailers which can carry either of them. We refer to these as 兼用.

But evil person that you are you don't say what the ON reading is.

Oh well, if I don't remember it I should probably add it to the nasty vocab list anyway. (currently 1095 words long ...)

Mike Cash · 22 Oct 2004

It never even crossed my mind that someone might not be able to read that.

兼用けんよう kenyou

PaulTB · 23 Oct 2004

mikecash said:
It never even crossed my mind that someone might not be able to read that.

Well I'm sure I should have been able to ... but these things don't stay stuck in there forever. I guess you caught me just after that one dropped out.

Mike Cash · 23 Oct 2004

I just have a bad habit of assuming (on every subject under the sun) that everybody already knows everything I know. As you can imagine, this sometimes causes problems.

Scrivener · 23 Oct 2004

It has this main meaning:

〔両方を持っている〕combine 《A with B》;〔両方に役に立つ〕serve both as 《A and B》;〔両方である〕be both 《A and B》
仕事と楽しみを兼ねる combine business with pleasure
この箱は机といすを兼ねている This box serves both as a desk and a seat.
彼が作曲と作詞を兼ねた He both composed the music and wrote the words.

And this meaning when used after a verb (don't ask me why, it just works that way):

〔窶ｦできない〕cannot;〔窶ｦするのが難しい〕be very hard 《to do》;〔窶ｦする立場･境遇にない〕be not in a position 《to do》;〔ためらう〕hesitate 《to do》
それは私には分かり兼ねます〔理解できない〕It is too hard for me to understand. / It is beyond me. / 〔知らない〕I'm afraid I don't know.
それはなんとも申し上げ兼ねます I am not in a position to make any comment on it.
申し上げ兼ねますが思い違いをしておられます I hate to say so, but you're wrong.
彼らは吉報を待ち兼ねていた They were waiting impatiently for the good news.

I think I've heard it more often as "can't" than as "difficult to do" though. But "machikaneru" (the last example) is very common, just to contradict myself.

PaulTB · 23 Oct 2004

mikecash said:
I just have a bad habit of assuming (on every subject under the sun) that everybody already knows everything I know. As you can imagine, this sometimes causes problems.

Well, you won't let that kid drive the truck again, right?

Mike Cash · 23 Oct 2004

I trust no one's driving. I have found this to be the best policy.

兼ねる

m477

後輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Scrivener

先輩

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

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