こと？

Tomii515 · 13 Jun 2007

こんばんは皆さん！

Hey, umm... Well, so I was thinking about こと. I know how to use it (atleast, i think I do...) even though I didn't learn it yet in my textbooks (I think it's in the 3rd book under one of the "compound sentences" chapters), I'm pretty sure I know how to use one (or only...?) of it's uses.

Here's an example I'm pretty sure is right:

僕は何をすること知りません。
I don't know what to do.

That's correct, right?

Well, if it's not, please correct me.

Anyway, こと is used for linking verbs together, correct? To make compound sentences? Like, to use a verb and then the infinitive of another verb. Like in my example sentence: こと is linking the conjugated verb "know (actually, not know)" with the infinitive "to do". You can't say 僕は何をする知りません, can you? Well, if you can, maybe is casual speaking?

Well, I was just wondering what wonders こと can do. If there are more ways it can be used, please explain! Also, if you wouldn't mmind, could you please provide examples? But, if there aren't any uses and I explained it right and I know what I'm doing, just let me know!

Thanks~

-Tommy

Elizabeth · 13 Jun 2007

Tomii515 said:
こんばんは皆さん！
Hey, umm... Well, so I was thinking about こと. I know how to use it (atleast, i think I do...) even though I didn't learn it yet in my textbooks (I think it's in the 3rd book under one of the "compound sentences" chapters), I'm pretty sure I know how to use one (or only...?) of it's uses.
Here's an example I'm pretty sure is right:
僕は何をすること知りません。
I don't know what to do.
That's correct, right?
Well, if it's not, please correct me.

I don't know what to do = どうしたらいいか分かりません。

僕は何をすることを知りません。
I don't know that (the fact that, the thing that) you do what (what you will do) ???

Anyway, こと is used for linking verbs together, correct? To make compound sentences? Like, to use a verb and then the infinitive of another verb. Like in my example sentence: こと is linking the conjugated verb "know (actually, not know)" with the infinitive "to do". You can't say 僕は何をする知りません, can you? Well, if you can, maybe is casual speaking?

No, you can't say that. こと after an infinitive is like making a statement abstract as in "the fact that" or "about that" and essentially converts the sentence to a noun so it can act as the new subject, object etc. Just as any other noun cannot come before the verb without a particle, neither does こと。 OK, well I'm too tired to explain anymore tonight. Try searching the site, looking at a text or maybe someone else will come along.

Tomii515 · 13 Jun 2007

Well I feel stupid XD hehehe XD It's ok though, thanks!

The7thSamurai · 13 Jun 2007

What about 何をするかを知りません for "I don't know what I'll do" (at a particular time in the future)?

The more I learn Japanese, the more I see it as a language with phrase after phrase of nominalised actions and relative forms (maybe it's the same in other languages). 歩くこと = that which walks/thing that walks/idea that walks/fact that walks. You can't really make sense of it in English unless you change the whole thing to "walking", which might not be 100% true to the term 歩くこと. Just thinkin about it that's all...

undrentide · 13 Jun 2007

Bucko said:
What about 何をするかを知りません for "I don't know what I'll do" (at a particular time in the future)?

I'm afraid that 何をするかを知りません sounds extremely awkward.
知る is more like to have knowledge or skill to do something.
"I don't know what I'll do" means you cannot tell because you haven't decided yet. 知る is to get the knowledge outside of you so in this case わかる fits better. わかる means to be able to tell (because one already knew).
Unless the schedule what to do in the future is expected to be decided by someone else or one is waiting for instruction somewhere else, it should be わかる. You can use 知る when you are talking about what others will do.

I don't know what I'll do.
何をするかわかりません。
(何をするか決めていません may sound more natural.)

I don't know what he'll do.
彼が何をするのか知りません。
何をする予定なのか知りません。
何をするつもりなのか知りません。

The above 知りません can be replaced by わかりません but わかりません could add certain connotation - you cannot tell what he would do because his behaviour is always so unpredictable, for example.

Supervin · 13 Jun 2007

For 'I don't know what to do', I would go with

どうすればいいのか分かりません。 or
どうしたらいいのか分かりません。

You don't need こと here.

Elizabeth · 13 Jun 2007

Tomii515 said:
Well I feel stupid XD hehehe XD It's ok though, thanks!

You probably saw 知っている in the affirmative like this それをすることを知っていますか？ and thought what the heck, I'll just turn it into a question, no problem....But in Japanese nothing is ever so easy and "don't know what...." type grammar becomes an embedded か after the initial question followed by a "don't know" （何をするか分からない。。。） Trans : What will I do ? I don't know.

If that helps at all...

I don't know what I'll do.
何をするかわかりません。
(何をするか決めていません may sound more natural.)

I don't know what he'll do.
彼が何をするのか知りません。
何をする予定なのか知りません。
何をするつもりなのか知りません。

Although in a phrase such as どうするかな "I wonder what (I/you/he/she) should do?" the の can be dropped without a problem, right ?

そうするのかな I've never heard (perhaps with very limited situations) but
どうするのかな might be unnatural to use on onself if it makes the speaker sound extremely indecisive ??? In that case, if adding の strengthens the intensity level (I wonder WHAT I should do....) ? そういう感じかな。。

Damicci · 13 Jun 2007

I have heard どうするかな plenty of times. Rieko also uses it. So I would think it's fine with out the の。

It's ok tommi I made this exact same mistake thinking 何をするのか知りません was ok to use. You just have to learn from your mistakes.

Elizabeth · 13 Jun 2007

Damicci said:
I have heard どうするかな plenty of times. Rieko also uses it. So I would think it's fine with out the の。

Yeah, I probably didn't word it very clearly but I actually meant without it for any subject.

The example that undrentide-san gave previous between "I don't know what I'll do" and "I don't know what he/she will do" left out the の for the first. Although in this case I have heard and don't think there's much difference at all whether it's there or not for （の）かしらない, I wonder if the same is true for かな...

Damicci · 13 Jun 2007

Oh well in that case that would go back to the discussion we had about のか and how no is more natural and to not use no requires special circumstance. So You could drop it and still get your point across.
「のかを」 | Japan Forum

Elizabeth · 13 Jun 2007

Damicci said:
Oh well in that case that would go back to the discussion we had about のか and how no is more natural and to not use no requires special circumstance. So You could drop it and still get your point across.
「のかを」 | Japan Forum

I don't think it requires anything special. I see it done every day, even in the same or nearly the same sentence as simply か。

でも、「のかな」の場合は、「のかな」のほうが話者が興味を強く持っている印象を受けるかな。。。。

こと？

Tomii515

やった～！

Elizabeth

先輩

Tomii515

やった～！

The7thSamurai

Master of the Universe

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Supervin

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

Damicci

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

Damicci

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

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