COVID-19 Coronavirus: general discussion

yamcha · 15 Feb 2020

The Wuhan Death Flu is much less contagious than the regular yearly flue and no more deadly. The problem is the 2 week incubation period but that actually is useful for to as those who are suspected to carry the flu can be easily quarantined. You are 10,000 times more likely to get the regular flu.

What the media is actually doing is trying to hurt China economically and more importantly, politically. Xi is looking very bad right now to his people. I spoke to a Chinaman yesterday and he said the Chinese have known about this virus for nearly half a year but didn't want to spring the news until after the Chinese New Year. He also told me that the number of people infected in China is certainly at least double what is reported out of there.

I hope this really messes with the Chinese since that country could use a spanking and a reboot.

Mark of Zorro · 15 Feb 2020

okinawaholic said:
In due time, as the incubation period could be as long as 24 days, we will see tens to hundreds pop up here, just as we saw on the ship.

The incubation period is only being made to seem longer as old people with pneumonia are having their lives extended on the verge of death for weeks at a time. Its not like that with young and healthy people which is why in so many international cases so many have already recovered.

I will further add that this virus only seems more contagious because in an over-crowded country, in an over-crowded city and their over-crowded hospitals anyone could get anything even if it was the least contagious disease on planet Earth. Aiding that is the lock down of cities which is not only keep places over-crowded but ensuring poor diets. We will probably start hearing about mass HIV saliva transmissions next, that's how stupid this getting. But its still mostly isolated to Wuhan.

All we are seeing on the ship is how a poor quarantine spreads a virus to uninfected people within the quarantine, the same stupidity and incompetence that is happening in Wuhan.

okinawaholic said:
Just wait. I waited 2 weeks to know what I already knew to be confirmed:

Sheer confirmation bias. I would feel sorry for anyone that takes stock in your posts, but truth be told, they are probably getting a thrill out of your panic posting as much as you are.

okinawaholic · 15 Feb 2020

Mark of Zorro said:
Sheer confirmation bias.

How do you figure, especially with the cruise ship's route as well as the current infection?

okinawaholic · 15 Feb 2020

yamcha said:
You are 10,000 times more likely to get the regular flu.

This is probably true, during flu season—the numbers might be equal when it's all said and done. But, it's still yet to be seen how much havoc it plays in Africa too, especially if it reaches rural areas.

Agreed that it's worse in China than what they're selling us. They already have a history of covering up, and continuing, medical mistakes. Why stop now?

Mark of Zorro · 15 Feb 2020

okinawaholic said:
How do you figure, especially with the cruise ship's route as well as the current infection?

First of all its up to you to prove your claim with sources, quotes and links. But I am telling you, there is no way a virus with a known incubation period of up to 5 days has suddenly mutated to a month, not unless we are going full blown conspiracy theory and its been engineered. But once again, its up to you to prove your claim with sources, quotes and links.

Mark of Zorro · 15 Feb 2020

A significant part of my OP was the press and how it operates. And the fact that they have the freedom of speech and we don't is indeed part of the fracking problem. I was honestly more annoyed with the off-topic stuff about how to write David in Japanese than the much closer to being on topic stuff about the inner workings of the lying, hyping media. So I hope we all learned here not to talk about topics so forbidden I cannot even name the God damned topic, but please remember that otherwise how the lying, hyping media is lying and hyping this is still fair game.

okinawaholic · 15 Feb 2020

Mark of Zorro said:
A significant part of my OP was the press and how it operates. And the fact that they have the freedom of speech and we don't is indeed part of the fracking problem. I was honestly more annoyed with the off-topic stuff about how to write David in Japanese than the much closer to being on topic stuff about the inner workings of the lying, hyping media. So I hope we all learned here not to talk about topics so forbidden I cannot even name the God damned topic, but please remember that otherwise how the lying, hyping media is lying and hyping this is still fair game.

Easily searched with Google.

Search route, when passenger was confirmed in HK, when they let passengers off in Naha, and when cases started popping up. Then look for the governor's statement today of how shutting off Okinawa will have an impact on us not reaching 10 million tourists—it was always $ over health and safety concerns, no doubt about it as anyone in preventative medicine would've said NOPE to disembarking all passengers here.

They knew then and they only acted now, too late.

Just friendly banter with someone on the forum to get acquainted with names, which seems like something you're adamantly against, as to why I will refrain from replying to you further as well as citing easily found sources and do your leg work if you're truly interested in the Okinawa incident.

Lothor · 15 Feb 2020

okinawaholic - I think you're overstating the threat to Africa. This virus has been around for a few months and excluding the cases of China and Japan (where there have been specific circumstances leading to more cases), all other countries have less than 100 cases, despite a very dense network of flights between them. This is particularly true for Europe. Africa simply doesn't have that density of flights. It's far more likely that there'll be isolated cases such as the one in Egypt than a pandemic gradually heading south and engulfing the continent, which is what your words seem to suggest.

okinawaholic · 15 Feb 2020

Lothor said:
okinawaholic - I think you're overstating the threat to Africa.

I wouldn't think so, it's an absolute that their infrastructure couldn't handle the case load, as seen with Ebola.

Lothor said:
all other countries have less than 100 cases

While this is true, these countries specifically put preventative measures in place such as Wihan evacuees locked down on military bases.

Not so the case with Japan, specifically Okinawa, cause "no law prohibited it", then, but all the sudden it does, while still crying about tourism and economics (suggesting they wanted to steal the title of most tourists away from Hawaii inbetween the lines)?

Lothor said:
Africa simply doesn't have that density of flights.

Did China when it spread to rural provinces? Could just as easily come in by road with 1 infecting 2.5 on the way in deeper. It's really an unknown, but should be monitored and not completely discounted.

Lothor said:
words seem to suggest.

Like I said, it's an unknown as this had no pattern to it. When they find temperature plays a role in preventing the spread, Singapore, on the equator debunked it.

Mark of Zorro · 15 Feb 2020

okinawaholic said:
Easily searched with Google.

For that alone I would label your account with "troll" if I were a moderator. I would allow you to speak but let everyone know your level of irresponsibility.

You have just lost the debate and any shred of credibility. Have a nice day.

okinawaholic · 15 Feb 2020

Mark of Zorro said:
So cut to today. Just what do you think the conditions are in PRC hospitals? Over-crowded? Poor sanitation, hygiene and nutrition? Yep. Plus you got old people in these hospitals who were sick before they ever got this new strain of cold virus. No deaths among those infected in other countries as yet. No surprise from me.

Sources in OP? Nope.

Mark of Zorro said:
For that alone I would label your account with "troll" if I were a moderator.

Guess if we play by your rules, everyone, including you is a "troll" if hypocrisy is to prevail under your reign.

Have a good one!

thomas · 15 Feb 2020

Once again, keep it civil everyone. I will not hesitate to close this thread if this turns personal again.

yamcha · 15 Feb 2020

Mark of Zorro said:
For that alone I would label your account with "troll" if I were a moderator. I would allow you to speak but let everyone know your level of irresponsibility.

You have just lost the debate and any shred of credibility. Have a nice day.

So you don't like people having another opinion that doesn't match yours? Should we take him out back and kick his *** too? Come on man, give yourself a break. I want you to google and show me where it says you are one that knows everything about anything and only you.

okinawaholic · 15 Feb 2020

yamcha said:
So you don't like people having another opinion that doesn't match yours? Should we take him out back and kick his *** too? Come on man, give yourself a break. I want you to google and show me where it says you are one that knows everything about anything and only you.

Lay it to rest. Maybe we can split the theard, @thomas? It's quite clear the the OP is leaning one way on this issue, making us back up claims on theories, when they themselves can't do it.

This will always be a 1 sided issue if the OP continually interjects their opinions without citations then bashing on others with a differing point of view.

Davey · 15 Feb 2020

It is scary. I guess it will pass but affects us in various ways. They other day I took my class to the science museum but parents asked us why we didn't wear masks. At the museum there was this Chinese family (which might have not even been from China and just lived here) but we decided to move away from them. How far do you care or have to care about it.

thomas · 15 Feb 2020

Davey said:
It is scary. I guess it will pass but affects us in various ways. They other day I took my class to the science museum but parents asked us why we didn't wear masks. At the museum there was this Chinese family (which might have not even been from China and just lived here) but we decided to move away from them. How far do you care or have to care about it.

It is hard to keep such irrational feelings in check, and I had the same experience yesterday way when I encountered a Chinese family in the supermarket. I felt very sorry for them. Rational or not, the virus has already started to affect our daily lives. I was quite surprised to learn that the Yokohama photo fair, which was supposed to start on the 27th and which I visit every year was cancelled.

Given there is no effective treatment or containment measures to deal
with the novel coronavirus (COVID-19), organizers of CP+2020 have decided
to cancel the event due to overall concerns, mainly the risk to the health
and safety of visitors and exhibitors. The event was originally scheduled
to be held over 4 days at PACIFICO Yokohama from February 27.

<Cancellation of CP+2020>
http://www.cpplus.jp/download/en/cancellation_of_cp+2020_visitors_en.pdf

yamcha · 15 Feb 2020

Davey said:
It is scary. I guess it will pass but affects us in various ways. They other day I took my class to the science museum but parents asked us why we didn't wear masks. At the museum there was this Chinese family (which might have not even been from China and just lived here) but we decided to move away from them. How far do you care or have to care about it.

It is your right to protect yourself and your students from potential harm. It is just self-defense has nothing to do with racism or discrimination. The virus just happens to come from China. There are plenty of Chinese in my community and for now, I am avoiding all contact with them. I don't think Wuhan Death Flu is any worse than any other flu but getting the flue sucks so that's all.

And unless it is against the law in the country where you live then one is free to be racist and discriminate too.

johnnyG · 15 Feb 2020

thomas said:
It is hard to keep such irrational feelings in check, and I had the same experience yesterday way when I encountered a Chinese family in the supermarket. I felt very sorry for them. Rational or not, the virus has already started to affect our daily lives. I was quite surprised to learn that the Yokohama photo fair, which was supposed to start on the 27th and which I visit every year was cancelled.

CP+ 2020 really looks like it'd be worth a visit--even worth it to get there from here!

Mark of Zorro · 15 Feb 2020

yamcha said:
So you don't like people having another opinion that doesn't match yours?

Nope. I am good with different opinions. But I am definitely not good with the "Google the basis of my view for yourself" type cop out. That's what people who make stuff up from their own head do. People who actually did some fact checking generally don't have great trouble relocating their sources. In fact, some are so clever they know how to bookmark and do so often! (Not me...I relocate like a dummy).

okinawaholic said:
It's quite clear the the OP is leaning one way on this issue, making us back up claims on theories, when they themselves can't do it.

Boy that sure made my accusation clear didn't it? In three pages I have put up lots of links, quotes and sources some directly related to the OP. And I don't remember anyone asking for them either. Wow...just wow. How will you choose to vindicate me next I wonder? For the love of Pete I hope you don't. Instead could you just clarify this:

okinawaholic said:
I waited 2 weeks to know what I already knew to be confirmed: there's a case here. In due time, as the incubation period could be as long as 24 days, we will see tens to hundreds pop up here, just as we saw on the ship.

Was what you already knew 1) there is a case in Japan or 2) the incubation period is up to 24 days or 3) both. We can start over from there.

Mark of Zorro · 15 Feb 2020

Just for kicks I will add that there are plenty of masks available in the hardware sections of Japan's home centers, such as Cainz Home. What do I know about masks? Well, aside from the fact I believe those generally used and available are ineffective against cold and flu at best and detrimental at worst, except in laboratory conditions by someone knowledgeable of and strictly using the proper protocols, nothing. I will leave it to you to decide whether those dust masks are equally effective, or if they are even better for actually sealing to your face and not allowing air in from the sides.

But keep in mind that some are made of plastic and you insert a disposable triangular pad in them, and those pads come in various grades. You may well be able to get grades made to keep out viruses IDK. But if they exist they won't be sold out...no one uses them generally cause they are not "fashionable" (cough) enough. There are purely disposable masks, reusable plastic masks like this one below, and even more robust ones with filters on both sides. If you take your masks seriously, I suggest you look into it.

Side note: Pollen season is coming and these are probably better for that in any case.

johnnyG · 16 Feb 2020

Oh, mama, can this really be the end
To be stuck inside a cruise ship off
Yokohama again...

okinawaholic · 16 Feb 2020

No wonder why Okinawa and the rest of Japan are getting answers so slow.

There is only one place in Okinawa that can test, and its capacity is at roughly 9 people per day. Meaning, all 15 contacts the taxi driver had (which I'd argue is much more) could have been tested by now, or they are waiting for some physical signs to not clog the system because of the fact if there's 1 there are probably 2.5 who spread to 2.5 already due to her reporting to work from the 1st to the 5th, only taking leave on the 8th and checking herself in who knows what situation (calling in ahead of time) on the 11th. More than 1 person was infected if you use critical thinking; you don't need a source to know that.

They also confirm that this is about the same capacity as all other prefectures, which could coincide with why WHO's SITREP-25 had a leap of 44 new infections on the Diamond Princess. The passengers were most likely tested after they were evacuated or it took this long to test the entire batch that they could in Japan around all labs--a question to be unanswered and just a theory.

And to those that need a source to know info that should've already been announced in the wake of Princess Diamond docking in Yokohama:

February 16, 2020 @ 0900 -- Other taxi drivers and citizens that are concerned about whether they may be infected and asymptomatic shows the poor state that Japan and Okinawa are in as only the Prefectural Institute of Public Health and Environment in Okinawa can carry out such tests for COVID-19 at a rate of 9 per day, which is roughly the same as other prefectures. DISCUSS →

johnnyG · 16 Feb 2020

Mark of Zorro said:
Just for kicks I will add that there are plenty of masks available in the hardware sections of Japan's home centers, such as Cainz Home. ...

I'm not looking for masks, but I noticed this posted on the retirejapan site:

I just went to three home centres and two drug stores, at 8am-9am opening time. There was a ten-deep line up at the first store before the doors opened. We all filed straight to the mask section. No stock. None of the stores had any masks, hand sanitising gel or alcohol wipes. Not even in the baby diaper section. ...

Disaster Preparation: Diseases

Not much has happened and already people are freaking out My wife went to buy hand soap yesterday and the shop was restricting purchases to one per person. It seems the panic over the yet-to-arrive…

www.retirejapan.com

Mark of Zorro · 17 Feb 2020

johnnyG said:
We all filed straight to the mask section. No stock.

Was I not clear enough before? I am not talking about the fake surgical masks people like to wear. That guy was in a different section (household goods/ medicine) and was looking for this:

Mark of Zorro · 17 Feb 2020

What I was talking about were dust masks for things like woodworking. Those would be found in the tool section and the disposable ones look like this:

COVID-19 Coronavirus: general discussion

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