Working in Japan as a 'bad American'

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nihondaisuki said:
I think lots of people have answered your questions,but you just don't seem to understand anything. If you're that stupid and stubborn,just go to America and live there
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That's cute. See the thing is I sincerely the majority of you have ever actually worked in Japan at a Japanese company. I have -- at two actually, and I still do. My apologies if you guys do. You'll find that there's often exactly one correct way of doing things -- the Japanese way. This way is not to be deviated from. Japan is a conformist culture. I view this as an objective statement. You need to kakunin most stuff with your senpai, even if they aren't there or have no idea what's going on. Many meetings are duplicated and people work later than the boss. Why? Japanese way. Question it too much? Prepare for some serious corporate shunning and ijime.

Think I am making this up? Think again. Every foreign person has two paths to choose in a Japanese officeplace. Be "the nail that doesn't stick out" and follow the traditional Japanese hierarchy (this generally means speaking at least business level Japanese and keigo, and understanding complex etiquette rules) or suffer having very few friends. The Japanese are not so big on internationalisation at the moment, and a substantial segment of the population remains absolutely opposed to immigration in most of its forms.

Again, most of the moderators haven't been in Japan recently. Most people posting here are simply going off outdated knowledge. In the past 3-4 years Japan has taken a pretty sharp turn "right" in its politics.

Again that all said, Japan is a wonderful country to live in and work in. Probably one of the best in the world, if not the best. But it takes a LOT of hard work and sacrifice to be here. Anyone thinking it's easy or even remotely like their study abroad experience or animes they have seen is in for a very rude awakening. I've seen this happen with enough of my Japanophile American friends to count on four hands.

Working in Japan is profoundly different than studying here or learning about it. Again these are generalisations, but you'll find that most Japanese have very little tolerance for dissent within their ranks. It's a very uniform culture in general, much more so than the rest of the world. Probably due to the ethnic homogeneity factor at work
 
nihondaisuki said:
Even some American people might find your way of thinking illogical.
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To be fair, I think millions and millions of Americans would consider him an obnoxious boor.

kaspersky said:
This thread is a waste of time.
View attachment 12960
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In the "You know you're a **** when... dept." How much a **** do you have to be to have people joining to let you know? (I know Edogaijin gets hurt by words easily, so for the record, I'm not technically calling him a ****. No need to cry.)
 
It's the first time i see someone hates the Japanese people and their lifestyle !
Maybe you need to come work here in Saudi Arabia where no Alcohol, no Women, no bacon...Just a freakin HOT weather and Men, What do you say ? Should i start looking for job for you?

edit: i forgot to say that we (Men) here kiss shakes when greeting each others ...
 
typical Japanese old women.
it can see them everywhere in Japan. especially in farm land

1379396603.webp

OBA-CHAN on Vimeo
 
#1 You work in IT and expect no overtime, so of course you will be despised. I don't think the US IT industry can get away with no "unpaid" overtime either.
#2 You are a contract worker? So already you are lower level in the company's hierarchy.
#3 You can't speak Japanese. There's obviously going to be major communication problems during work. I don't think any top firms would hire anyone without native level Japanese. Did you get into a good company? There are many black kigyou's in Japan. In fact, I think more than 1/3 of Japanese entry level workers quit in the first few years. Being unhappy at work is not just limited to foreigners.

A stable job with good income sure beats the quarterly stack-and-yank system in the US (not to mention lower pay! maybe not in IT, but for everything else).

"Be "the nail that doesn't stick out" and follow the traditional Japanese hierarchy (this generally means speaking at least business level Japanese and keigo, and understanding complex etiquette rules) or suffer having very few friends. "
Yes, you are supposed to do that. Do you seriously expect to work at an another country without following their rules? The company should have given you sufficient training to help with integration. Again it is odd that you could even land a job in Japan without native level Japanese, let alone not speaking it. Your resume must be quiet good.

Even if you get hired by a company in the US. They will not attempt to change the culture for you.
With what you listed on your thread, do you reasonably think that you'll even land and keep a job in the US? Highly doubtful. Your current attitude is simply not fit to work in any company in any country.
 
Stop listening and responding to edogaijin. He's just trolling.
 
I'm not trolling when I say that I think unpaid overtime is pretty illegal and very immoral. I'm also unaware of any major J-company that has cultural sensitivity training... Rakuten certainly did not when I worked there. The expectation was that the foreigners they hired needed to Japanize. Despite the company's "English only" policy, 99% of internal communication was done in Japan-go. Was sort of a joke TBH..

About contract workers being low status -- I think that might be a Japanese work culture thing. Back home in the US, contractors were treated basically the same as full employees. I feel it's not entirely fair to treat some employees as disposable or lesser. Xenophobia and workplace abuse are not OK, nor are they legal. Neither is unpaid overtime. Know your rights, and stand up for them.

I will caution readers of this that working in Tokyo is vastly different than working in the rest of Japan. Tokyo is not the "real Japan" and is best described as a workaholic city. Take it from someone that worked at a major J-company. Working here as a foreigner is an exercise in pain. It's something most of the English teachers or workers outside Tokyo will not understand.
 
I encourage any reader of this thread to look at it objectively. This guy's name is "nihondaisuki". His profile says he lives in Bucharest. He's probably never been to Japan as a worker. I'm American and have lived in Japan for many years.

I encourage you all to make your own decisions regarding credibility on these matters.
 
I am going to University in Japan for 5 years at the beginning of April.
No,i have never worked in Japan, but i know people who worked there. and no,they weren't like you.

PS. I am a girl,btw.
 
Again you work in the IT field. IT field, no matter where you go, is not going to get you the best treatments. The hours you get in an US IT firms is not going to be much better.
Also, Rakuten is somewhat famous for long hours etc. Maybe you should have done more research before you enter a company to know their expectations.
Just because you went to a ブラック企業 doesn't mean that most Japanese companies abuse their employees. Maybe it's because you cannot read ANY japanese that you do not get any information.
ﾆ置ﾆ停?ｰﾆ鍛ﾆ誰ﾅ?ﾃｩ窶ｹﾃ?就ﾂ職窶｢ﾃ篠債ｷ窶冤ﾆ停?ｰﾆ停?愴鱈ﾆ停?愴丹 - Yourpedia
People who read Japanese should see the above link.

Did you really expect a company in Japan to operate in English??? that's such a joke. Won't happen now, won't ever happen. That would cause so much communication problems within the firm that the company will likely go bankrupt within the year.
 
Ok, I'll bite.

You'll have to get a degree in something. Also, you'll have to use that degree to get a job overseas before you move. You also need a lot of money for the flight, and also to secure an apartment (unless your employer supplies dorms for their employees).

That said, with your attitude, many will probably shake their heads, although they won't give you problems. But this is NOT a good way to make friends, or get favours from people. Japanese people value politeness and quietness dearly. The more quiet and polite you are, the higher chance you have of getting along with Japanese citizens, while the opposite will get you the opposite. No matter what, a respectable Japanese citizen will not yell at you unless they get extraordinarily upset about something, and even then, most are able to hold their tongues, and will simply ignore you. However, stay out of the less safer areas, because there are gangs that are anti Gaijin (at least based on what I've read and seen).
 
J Caternolo said:
Ok, I'll bite.
You'll have to get a degree in something. Also, you'll have to use that degree to get a job overseas before you move. You also need a lot of money for the flight, and also to secure an apartment (unless your employer supplies dorms for their employees).
That said, with your attitude, many will probably shake their heads, although they won't give you problems. But this is NOT a good way to make friends, or get favours from people. Japanese people value politeness and quietness dearly. The more quiet and polite you are, the higher chance you have of getting along with Japanese citizens, while the opposite will get you the opposite. No matter what, a respectable Japanese citizen will not yell at you unless they get extraordinarily upset about something, and even then, most are able to hold their tongues, and will simply ignore you. However, stay out of the less safer areas, because there are gangs that are anti Gaijin (at least based on what I've read and seen).
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I've been looking for work for well on 5 months now. I speak N3 level Japanese and have two college degrees. I can say unequivocally that merit-based hiring is rare in the Japanese IT market, especially at J-firms. Most businesses here have no idea what good Software Engineering is and no idea what OOAD or Computer Science is.

General thoughts:

1) Base wages in Japan are roughly half of what they are in New York, Los Angeles, London or Hong Kong. Tokyo isn't realistically competing for global talent

2) J-firms are hiring on relatively onerous terms, from a linguistic and cultural perspective

3) Massive unpaid overtime. I call it the "Great Japanese Overtime" swindle. Illegal and common.

4) Re; "polite and quiet". This is a Tokyo thing, in my experience. It's a matter of conflict avoidance, rather than people being "polite". Once you start to realize what people are saying about the size of your nose or how you look... Well, you realize how passive-aggressive Japan can really be.

5) Thanks for the advice, but I've lived here coming on 4 years.

My thoughts on Japan...

Japan is screwed. The economy is entering a third lost decade. The cultural stubbornness, coupled with a genuine inflexibility and lack of innovation, will spell out a future mired in demographic collapse, da-jishin and economic ruin. Japan won't be forced to change by foreigners -- It will be forced to change by the reality of the consequences they've created.
 
nahadef said:
The Japanese term is "Black Company." The people are aware of it, and not all that happy about it.

Black Company (Japanese term) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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For sure, but I think the vast majority of Japanese workers just "deal with it". Many aren't part of any labor unions. I know at a major Japanese e-commerce company I worked at, the average team member was there past 2130 most nights. They were definitely, 100% not paid for it. The "black companies" are just the guys that get caught. Reality is that even the big boys are on the abuse train.

In Tokyo the 60 hour work week is an institution of society, sadly. Most of my current or former coworkers would never dream of asking for overtime pay. It might be a cultural thing, but very few Japanese workers I've met will 'stand up for their rights'. It's really a problem of society, IMO
 
It is amusing to see people whining about a 60 hour work week, with or without overtime pay.
 
Mike Cash said:
It is amusing to see people whining about a 60 hour work week, with or without overtime pay.
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You may have been in Japan too long if you think 60+ hours a week is normal :p

In the OECD, it's actually Korea that's leading the current decline in the ol' zangyou. A lot of Europe still does 35-40 hours a week. This is really a 'uniquely' Japanese problem... I attribute it to the fact most Japanese don't stand up for their legal rights.
 
I don't think a 60 hour week is normal; I think it's short. If I only worked ten hours a day I'd giggle all the way home every day. Or were you assuming a five day workweek? If I only worked twelve hours a day is still giggle all the way home.
 
Long working hours are nothing to brag about. For significant periods of my working life I have put in 80+hour weeks for months on end!

It damages your health and no matter how hard you try to avoid it happening, will also damage your relationships / family. I was better off financially for doing it, but looking back now I do regret that time I could have better used. : (

If you are not being paid for that overtime it must be soul destroying. I do admire the resolve of the millions of Japanese who endure this situation for the sake of securing their careers, but wish that the Union movement in Japan had more clout and a bigger influence on work practices.
 
Did I give the impression I'm bragging? I'm just stating facts. My entire industry is like this; I'm nothing unique.
 
Mike Cash said:
Did I give the impression I'm bragging? I'm just stating facts. My entire industry is like this; I'm nothing unique.
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Yes you did.

I understand it's an unfortunate reality for the majority in Japan. More's the pity.
 
Dotanbatan said:
Yes you did.

I understand it's an unfortunate reality for the majority in Japan. More's the pity.
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When it is really amusing is when the expats whine about not being treated equally with their Japanese coworkers, when what they mean is they think they should receive even more preferential treatment than they already do. It is when they genuinely are treated equally that the most sincere howling begins,
 
Not about inequity at all, it's really more a statement about how screwed Japans corporate culture is and a general prediction about the (lack of) economic future this country has given its current trajectory :p

What I was getting at with this thread (admittedly, posted when I was totally sh**faced after a nomikai) is that Japan is, as a nation, basically totally screwed in terms of its work culture. The IT and engineering culture in Japan, in terms of working conditions, base wages, innovation and so forth is probably a solid 20 years behind Europe and America. It's starting to fall behind Korea as well, apparently.
 
If I had to choose between a whiny expat and a condescending one, I think I'd choose the whiny one. There's room for growth. The condescending ones are much less capable of change.
 
nahadef said:
If I had to choose between a whiny expat and a condescending one, I think I'd choose the whiny one. There's room for growth. The condescending ones are much less capable of change.
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Were this put up to a vote... I bet the locals would pick the condescending foreigner. But probably not by much. I've found Japanese are quite thin-skinned, even more so than Americans, about any perceived criticism directed at their culture. This is doubly true if it's coming from westerners. I've seen people socially ostracized over 'loud' complaints about Japan.

There's a real sense of ethnicity = language = culture = identity in Japan. Certainly explains some of the われわれ日本人 statements on the tele at least... In my not so humble opinion, Japan could use a few less "holier than thou" elder gaijin types and a few more people to give the locals some perspective on what Japan might do to integrate some new ideas.
 
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