ﾅ誰 + 窶堋ｨ窶楼

[Rinilex]

I know the general usage for them, and when and where it can be appropriate, but I tend to get mixed views as to how they sound to people.

In the story I've been listening to, one guy calls a girl 窶堋ｨ窶楼, but another boy calls her ﾅ誰. They seem to be of similar ages and fairly close, so does this say something about their relationship or attitude?

I didn't know guys even called girls 窶堋ｨ窶楼, and I have heard ﾅ誰 can sound condescending and some girls don't like it? Is this true?

 

[Yzlot]

I've heard the opposite. There was this one Japanese girl in my class that I asked, and she said she HATED it when people talked to her using 窶堋ｨ窶楼. Apparently, ﾅ誰 once used to be the 'formal' version of 'you' like 窶ｹM窶｢ﾃｻ , and is now considered a more casual version of it.

窶堋ｨ窶楼 sounded to her like "Hey, you (because I'm too lazy to call you by your name) "

 

[Rinilex]

Doesn't it change if it's in a more romantic context, though? I've heard some men using お前 in songs and to girlfriends, and likewise 君, but I remember being told by someone that their girlfriend didn't like being called 君, and お前 can indicate endearment? (I think 君 does too, but I'm not sure how it comes across.)

I know お前 can easily sound very rude in other contexts unless you're with close friends... I remember watching an interview where one of the guys kept ending his sentence with お前! and even to me it sounded awful.

 

[Toritoribe]

The guy who calls her お前 has a closer relation with her than the other guy who calls her 君, for instance, they are lovers. (I think that's the auther's intention.) Or, the former guy uses rough language than the latter.

 

[Glenn]

Region is a factor. It's similar to the 窶堋?窶堙?窶堙寂?堋ｩ thing between ﾅ?ﾃ鳴青ｼ and ﾅ?ﾃ問?愬? where in one place one is considered rude and the other is fine, and in the other place it's the opposite. It may also have something to do with the individual, as well. I think it's unfortunately not so easy, and you're best off using the other person's name.

[Edit] Or what Toritoribe said.

 

[Rinilex]

The guy who calls her お前 has a closer relation with her than the other guy who calls her 君, for instance, they are lovers. (I think that's the auther's intention.) Or, the former guy uses rough language than the latter.

I think it might be a bit of both. The one who calls her お前 is definitely closer, but he also uses 俺. The other guy is a tad politer, though not by much.

Region is a factor. It's similar to the あほ/ばか thing between 関西 and 関東, where in one place one is considered rude and the other is fine, and in the other place it's the opposite. It may also have something to do with the individual, as well. I think it's unfortunately not so easy, and you're best off using the other person's name.

Ahh. So it might be seen as rude or patronising in some places, but seen as friendly in other regions? That explains the discrepancies in what I've been hearing.
I didn't know あほ and ばか were region dependent though, I always thought they were just interchangeably used. I don't hear あほ used a lot at all though, come to think of it.

 

[Toritoribe]

As for お前 and 君, there is no difference among regions (except when お前 is pronounced おめえ as a dialect).

 

[Rinilex]

I see. So how one takes being referred to as either depends on the person themselves?

 

[Glenn]

As for お前 and 君, there is no difference among regions (except when お前 is pronounced おめえ as a dialect).

I see. I was drawing from personal experience, where there was a discussion between a guy from Tokyo and a guy from Shiga about my use of お前 -- one thought it was crude, and the other thought it was fine. I don't remember which thought which, though. Also, it was at a bar 7 1/2 years ago, so my memory may be fuzzy...

 

[Toritoribe]

I see. So how one takes being referred to as either depends on the person themselves?

Some might hate to be called お前, but others might be delighted at being called お前 by her lover.

I see. I was drawing from personal experience, where there was a discussion between a guy from Tokyo and a guy from Shiga about my use of お前 -- one thought it was crude, and the other thought it was fine. I don't remember which thought which, though. Also, it was at a bar 7 1/2 years ago, so my memory may be fuzzy...

Ah I see. Yeah, Tokyo might tend to use お前 easily than Kansai region. As you know, Kansai has a special use of 自分.

 

[Rinilex]

Some might hate to be called 窶堋ｨ窶楼, but others might be delighted at being called 窶堋ｨ窶楼 by her lover.

I see! Is it the same with ﾅ誰? I've heard it can be used by men (and sometimes women now, apparently?) towards someone they're in a relationship with or close to, but to some people it can sound condescending because it implies some kind of hierarchy? (I think ﾅ誰 is/ was used by seniors to their juniors?)

 

[Glenn]

As you know, Kansai has a special use of 自分.

Ah yes. That. I'm not sure I've ever heard it, though, or if I have, it just didn't register as being that use.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Just to add, you really have to pick and choose who you refer to as 窶堋ｨ窶楼. Even someone close to you could be offended by it. Also the situation where and how you address someone as 窶堋ｨ窶楼 can cause offence too.

Region is a factor. It's similar to the 窶堋?窶堙?窶堙寂?堋ｩ thing between ﾅ?ﾃ鳴青ｼ and ﾅ?ﾃ問?愬? where in one place one is considered rude and the other is fine, and in the other place it's the opposite. It may also have something to do with the individual, as well. I think it's unfortunately not so easy, and you're best off using the other person's name.

[Edit] Or what Toritoribe said.

Some might hate to be called 窶堋ｨ窶楼, but others might be delighted at being called 窶堋ｨ窶楼 by her lover.



Ah I see. Yeah, Tokyo might tend to use 窶堋ｨ窶楼 easily than Kansai region. As you know, Kansai has a special use of ﾅｽﾂｩ窶｢ﾂｪ.

Down here there is also the the terms 窶堋?窶堙ｱ窶堋ｽﾂ、窶堋ｨ窶堙懌?堙ｱﾂ、窶堙??堋ｫ窶堙｡窶堙ｧ to refer to people.

 

[Glenn]

おまん?! I thought that was only used in 大河ドラマ nowadays! ha

てきゃら is new on me.

 

[FrustratedDave]

おまん?! I thought that was only used in 大河ドラマ nowadays! ha

てきゃら is new on me.

No, おまん is still pretty much used here, not so much with the younger generation though. (I use it sometimes when joking around with people) てきゃら is heavy slang used with the older generation, a lot of native speakers probably will not have heard of it either.

 

[letianchen]

Do they still say わっち and ぬし, im reading the spice and wolf light novel and they say this alot :?

 

[Toritoribe]

I see! Is it the same with 君? I've heard it can be used by men (and sometimes women now, apparently?) towards someone they're in a relationship with or close to, but to some people it can sound condescending because it implies some kind of hierarchy? (I think 君 is/ was used by seniors to their juniors?)

君 sounds far softer than お前. "君 and 僕", "お前 and 俺" and "君 and 私(used by female)" are often used as a set.

Do they still say わっち and ぬし, im reading the spice and wolf light novel and they say this alot :?

It IS a novel. Further, わっち is a dialect (or the author's coined word made from わちき, since she uses a dialect of licensed red-light district in Edo period ).