Homosexuality: Nature or nurture?

[Mark of Zorro]

I say both, as I always do, with each homosexual (or heterosexual for that matter) having their own personal balance of both nature and nurture.

But here is some new evidence for a hereditary, but not genetic (confusing, I know) component.

Homosexuality May Have Roots In Epigenetic Markers - Health News - redOrbit

"In particular, epi-marks give an extra set of information on the expression of genes. Genes have instruction, while epi-marks manage how the how gene instructions are carried out during gene development. For every generation, there is a new set of epi-marks; however, studies have also shown that epi-marks may be passed between generations and can cause similarity among relatives."

I wonder if those who say homosexuality is unnatural and can and should be "cured" will accept this evidence?

 

[Macrobiotic]

I agree both things play a part. There's a genetic predisposition and usually a dominant mother/weak father as well, in the case of girls the opposite I would guess.

I distinguish between hormonal factors and others. Hormone induced homosexuality usually results in people clearly affected by the sex hormones of the opposite gender meaning - overweight boys with high pitch voices and round, chubby faces and in the case of girls really manly, butch, square faced women.
However, most gay people do not seem to have a hormone imbalance, suggesting homosexuality is more complicated.

 

[BrianLewis]

There have been medical findings that have suggested that certain genetic predispositions could have an actual source. I vaguely recall reading about a study in patients having a genetic pre-disposition towards heart disease or cancer due to their parents or grandparents abusing their health (by smoking or stresses on the heart). If true, I don't see much of a leap towards abnormal gene behavior. That is, if the posted study rings true.

I find it hard to believe that any gene abnormality would completely control your decisions in life. That's a bit far fetched. I would say nature and nurture, with a bit of abnormal behavior due to normally elevated hormone levels that every 20 year old has. However, when I say nature, the majority of what I am thinking of is what is beyond a person's genetic makeup.

 

[Tamayo]

I think it's a mix of the two. Our bodies are equipped not only with actual parts, but a load of different hormones that affect our physical sex. I've also noticed that it has greatly to do with their upbringing.


Something I've noticed though -- Every gay (or suspected gay) person I've ever known has had some sort of childhood trauma in the family in the past. Does anyone know if there's a definite correlation? My mother is convinced that being gay is caused by trauma in the childhood.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Something I've noticed though -- Every gay (or suspected gay) person I've ever known has had some sort of childhood trauma in the family in the past. Does anyone know if there's a definite correlation? My mother is convinced that being gay is caused by trauma in the childhood.

Where is the control group though?

And what sort of trauma are you talking about? Can you give some examples?

Also, do you know anyone who did not have any sort of trauma in their childhood? My son burned his hand on the heater last week. He is only two, so he won't remember it consciously, but does that count? I was the first the one on the scene, I was pissed off and yelling (because my wife and mother in law let him wander into my room while I was playing games and that was where it happened) and I grabbed him and carried him to pour cold water on his hand while slamming doors. Definitely traumatic for the little guy. Now if I tell him something is hot, he runs to me. Even before this, he seeks me out more than his mother. Will stuff like that make him gay?

---------- Post added at 10:04 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

There have been medical findings that have suggested that certain genetic predispositions could have an actual source. I vaguely recall reading about a study in patients having a genetic pre-disposition towards heart disease or cancer due to their parents or grandparents abusing their health (by smoking or stresses on the heart). If true, I don't see much of a leap towards abnormal gene behavior. That is, if the posted study rings true.

Ummmm.....you sure that was not due to passive smoking???

As for the theory in general though, I am not ruling it out. I can imagine chemicals getting attached to eggs and sperms and leading to health problems later in life, though we usually think of them occurring immediately.

This is the reason why I gave up Coca-cola and some other things while my wife and I were baby making.

I find it hard to believe that any gene abnormality would completely control your decisions in life.

This is about as much of a decision as choosing to like the taste of chocolate or choosing not to. You don't choose what you like. If you like women, you like women. If you like men, you like men. If you like both, you like both. If you don't believe me, try making yourself like men for a while. And don't fret, because if that works you can make yourself like women again later right?

Genes do control your likes, though maybe not 100 percent. Twins raised apart with no knowledge of the other share similar tastes and preferences. Not everything, but more than others.

I might like natto if I grew up with it, but then again, I might not. Lots of Japanese kids grew up with it but don't like it. Many others do like it and there could be both a nature and nurture component, or just one.

I would say nature and nurture, with a bit of abnormal behavior due to normally elevated hormone levels that every 20 year old has.

I am not saying it plays no part, but I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill while ignoring true mountains. I also think that by insisting on terms like "abnormal behavior" and earlier "completely control". You are not being open minded enough to even allow the possibility that your pre-conceived ideas about homosexuality could be wrong. You are stacking the deck in favor of what you already decided. Its very unscientific.

However, when I say nature, the majority of what I am thinking of is what is beyond a person's genetic makeup.

For example?

 

[BrianLewis]

Something I've noticed though -- Every gay (or suspected gay) person I've ever known has had some sort of childhood trauma in the family in the past. Does anyone know if there's a definite correlation? My mother is convinced that being gay is caused by trauma in the childhood.

It's probably imagined trauma. Consider all the Psychology 101 students that make a list of disorders that they have. Add drama to the mix and I am not the least bit surprised. Couldn't you say that all humans have some sort of trauma? Even a lack of trauma could be seen as a type of trauma. I fully believe that every individual is capable of making their own decisions, and don't consider trauma to dictate one's life beyond something superficial.

I might like natto if I grew up with it, but then again, I might not. Lots of Japanese kids grew up with it but don't like it. Many others do like it and there could be both a nature and nurture component, or just one.

From my experience knowing people that hated a kind of food, it was always their upbringing that did that to them. They would even use the exact same set phrases for why they hated it as their parent did. I have yet to meet someone that grew up in a family that loved something and that person hated it, provided it was not overdone or resulted in some health issue. That said, I can't say food has anything to do with sexual orientation.

You are not being open minded enough to even allow the possibility that your pre-conceived ideas about homosexuality could be wrong. You are stacking the deck in favor of what you already decided. Its very unscientific.

I have yet to meet an open minded individual in the "Serious Discussions" section of this forum. People that participate in a debate always have a stance they pursue, not having one would make you a spectator. If you expect me to flap around in the wind because of study and an argument that hinges on speculation, then your going to be disappointed. Maybe someone else that has no footing can flap around for you. I do think that's an interesting statement to make coming from someone that has yet to even attempt to understand another perspective on this forum. That's not intended as an insult, just an observation.

For example?

Things other than biology, like personality, reasoning, or strength of will. You do believe that humans have these things, right?

 

[Tamayo]

Where is the control group though?

I have 6 gay friends, and my mother has a few with whom I'm antiquated. Not that hear-say really counts, but I also know quite a few gay people through my own friends and from what I've heard, they do seem to have that sort of trauma thing in common.

And what sort of trauma are you talking about? Can you give some examples?

I meant trauma like being molested/raped, neglected, physically/mentally abused, growing up in a generally bad home, having divorced/abusive/drunk parents, etc. These are all types of trauma that usually result in problems later in life like anxiety, OCD, biting nails, etc. I'll note that two of my gay friends were molested as a children.

Also, do you know anyone who did not have any sort of trauma in their childhood?

Of course I do, at least given that our definition of trauma is something like the things I've described above. I suppose I didn't elaborate nearly enough.

I have quite a few friends who didn't have to deal with anything I mentioned above, and while I can't say that I know everything about their pasts, they do seem to be quite "normal". (Can't think of the right term right now)

My son burned his hand on the heater last week. He is only two, so he won't remember it consciously, but does that count? I was the first the one on the scene, I was pissed off and yelling (because my wife and mother in law let him wander into my room while I was playing games and that was where it happened) and I grabbed him and carried him to pour cold water on his hand while slamming doors. Definitely traumatic for the little guy. Now if I tell him something is hot, he runs to me. Even before this, he seeks me out more than his mother. Will stuff like that make him gay?

I can't imagine that there's a single person alive today who hasn't had something like this happen to them at one point or another in their lives. I'm not just talking about one event that scared them, or in this case maybe caused him to be afraid of hot things, or seek one parent out more than the other. I mean on-going sorts of trauma that will really screw a kid up later in life. This happening with your son isn't something he'll have to seek counseling for in the future.

It's probably imagined trauma. Consider all the Psychology 101 students that make a list of disorders that they have. Add drama to the mix and I am not the least bit surprised. Couldn't you say that all humans have some sort of trauma? Even a lack of trauma could be seen as a type of trauma. I fully believe that every individual is capable of making their own decisions, and don't consider trauma to dictate one's life beyond something superficial.

It's definitely not imagined trauma. Forgive me, I was being pretty vague when I said it.

See above -- these are the sorts of trauma I meant. Definitely not blown out of proportion or imagined.