Don't they feel shame ?

Hezam

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I just read this news :
Al Jazeera said:
News Americas
Obama hosts Muslim entrepreneurs
The US president has renewed his commitment to a "new beginning" with the Muslim world, vowing no easing in US efforts to promote Middle East peace, curb violence and boost economic development.
Seeking to build on his outreach to Muslims in a speech in Cairo last June, Barack Obama has used the Presidential Summit on Entrepreneurship - a US-hosted Muslim business conference - to underscore what his administration has done so far and to pledge further work to overcome mistrust.
While Obama has made progress towards mending America's image in the Islamic world, he still faces stiff challenges in his handling of the stalled Israeli-Palestinian peace process, the nuclear standoff with Iran and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"I knew that this vision would not be fulfilled in a single year, or even several. But I knew we had to begin and that all of us have responsibilities to fulfill," Obama told the gathering of 250 business people from more than 50 countries in Washington DC on Monday.
Business development
The focus on business development marked the Obama administration's strategy of trying to broaden the conversation with Muslims beyond the "war on terrorism" that dominated the George Bush-era approach and alienated many.
Obama announced a series of efforts, including exchange programmes for women in technology and for high tech leaders from Silicon Valley to share their expertise.
He said his global technology and innovation fund would "potentially mobilise" more than $2bn in private capital.
Participants in the summit's sessions include Gary Locke, the US commerce secretary; Hillary Clinton, secretary of state; Arne Dunca, education secretary; and other senior US officials.
The private sector is being represented by Jerry Yang, Yahoo! co-founder; Muhammad Yunus, founder of Grameen Bank; and Arif Naqvi, head of Abraaj Capital, the largest private-equity firm in the Middle East.
In his speech, Obama also waded into some of the contentious issues that he acknowledged "have often been a source of tension".
Many Muslims are especially disappointed by Obama's failure so far to advance Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking despite promising in his first days in office to make it a high priority.
Stalled peace talks
Obama assured his audience he would not abandon US diplomatic efforts, which have been stalled by a dispute with Israel over Jewish settlement building and divisions among the Palestinians.
"Despite the inevitable difficulties, so long as I am president, the United States will never waver in our pursuit of a two-state solution that ensures the rights and security of both Israelis and Palestinians," he said.
But he offered no new initiative to revive the talks.
Obama also asserted that the US was "responsibly ending" the war in Iraq and "in Afghanistan, Pakistan and beyond, we're forging new partnerships to isolate violent extremists, combat corruption and foster the development that improves lives and communities."
Clovis Maksoud, aformer Arab League ambassador to the UN, said Muslims and Arabs are receptive to Obama's overtures.
"The Arabs feel, at least, that all sorts of initiatives might have certain positive results," he told Al Jazeera.
However, as long as the Palestinian-Israeli issue remains unresolved, it will "hang on as a weight on possibilities", Maksoud said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/04/201042754650529313.html

How many times the black house promised Muslims that they are gonna open a new page and make peace ?
What did Muslims get ?
And what happend ?
Afghanistan then Iraq then Gazza and Pakistan and now they are going to attack Iran as it seems.!!
Don't they feel shame ? just alittle bit...!
Does that obama thin people will belive him ?
 
I don't know much about Middle East politics, but I do know two things...

1. Opening an argument with a racial based jab = not the best idea
2. The goal would be more about "what can everyone benefit from" not JUST Muslims.

All I know though.
 
I don't know much about Middle East politics, but I do know two things...

1. Opening an argument with a racial based jab = not the best idea
2. The goal would be more about "what can everyone benefit from" not JUST Muslims.

All I know though.

Good points and I would also like to add that there is no Muslim state. They're separate countries. Why is it always Muslims, not UAE, Oman, Saudi Arabia? They're living in different states, so what's this whole coordinating politics in accord with faith crap? There's no state called Muslimistan, right? So stick with the existing states. The Middle East scares the hell out of the west for exactly that reason: the thought that great numbers of people can be unified under fairy tales, some even willing to kill for them, is scary. If the Middle East wants political success, states and their people need to act in the capacity of states and their citizens. The whole Muslim thing is just far too much drama. We're living in the 21st century and it is an era of citizenship, not of religious identity.
 
Unfortunately, the borders in the Middle East, like Africa, are very much arbitrary lines drawn by Europeans with little to no regard for the people living within those borders. Both were carved up by the victors of the last world war for their own self-serving purposes. Kuwait is a tiny little country created to landlock Iraq and its oil fields, as an example. Just some food for thought, I'm not stepping into the fray just yet.
 
Well,i think you missed something Emoni/Derfel,You have to take a look at the past 100 years,Without Khilafah ( One country control the whole Islamic world )The Islamic world will stay like this,always in a mess.
Muslimistan
This tells that you don't know what Khilafah is.
We say ( The West ),It means the christian countries leaded by the USA.so the USA is exactly like Khilafah.
See the Ottoman Khilafah (Empire as the west call it),The Ottomans leaded the Islamic world for 600 years or more,Before Ottoman there was Abbasya khilafah in Baghdad ruled Muslims for 524 years,and before Abbasya there was Omawai khilafah ruled for 71 years in the middle East and 800 years in Spain (Andalus).

Now,as you see the islamic countries are full of wars because of the western countries who control their governments.
They will never let Muslims rule them selves for reasons you know one of them is the oil...they are afraid of new Khilafah witch will be like the end of the western power here.

Like nice gaijin said,Kuwait is one example.

Can i ask you Emoni/Derfel ?
What do you know about the history of the past 100 years ? i mean do you know anything about it ? instead of telling me that we in the 21st century,the 21st century,the 21st century....
 
Unfortunately, the borders in the Middle East, like Africa, are very much arbitrary lines drawn by Europeans with little to no regard for the people living within those borders. Both were carved up by the victors of the last world war for their own self-serving purposes. Kuwait is a tiny little country created to landlock Iraq and its oil fields, as an example. Just some food for thought, I'm not stepping into the fray just yet.

That goes for all borders. They're all arbitrary. Borders in Europe, America or Asia are all arbitrary, only they've been drawn ages back and we've since grown used to them.

Well,i think you missed something Emoni/Derfel,You have to take a look at the past 100 years,Without Khilafah ( One country control the whole Islamic world )The Islamic world will stay like this,always in a mess.

I look 100 years into the past and what is apparent to me is that the Middle East is still stuck there, playing religion.

This tells that you don't know what Khilafah is.
We say ( The West ),It means the christian countries leaded by the USA.so the USA is exactly like Khilafah.

What the ****? We're not lead by America, holy ****. How the hell did that even occur to you? If anything, the EU is a rival to the USA, it's only the UK that doesn't know where it's loyalties lie.

See the Ottoman Khilafah (Empire as the west call it),The Ottomans leaded the Islamic world for 600 years or more,Before Ottoman there was Abbasya khilafah in Baghdad ruled Muslims for 524 years,and before Abbasya there was Omawai khilafah ruled for 71 years in the middle East and 800 years in Spain (Andalus).

Which proves what point?

Now,as you see the islamic countries are full of wars because of the western countries who control their governments.
They will never let Muslims rule them selves for reasons you know one of them is the oil...they are afraid of new Khilafah witch will be like the end of the western power here.

How does that tie in with the religious ideology, propaganda and brainwashing? I thought you were waging war on the west because we have **** morality and are depraved and corrupt and so on and so forth. I mean, it appears that you're saying that much of the Middle East is stuck in the mediaeval era because you have arbitrarily drawn borders and hence you must kill each other until you are united again, and then all the antagonism will be gone and you won't kill each other any longer. Is this plausible?

Can i ask you Emoni/Derfel ?
What do you know about the history of the past 100 years ? i mean do you know anything about it ? instead of telling me that we in the 21st century,the 21st century,the 21st century....

That argument only works if there can be a justification for atrocities and barbaric acts, but there really isn't. Your bitterness is now driving you to kill, including your own population? Come on!
 
I look 100 years into the past and what is apparent to me is that the Middle East is still stuck there, playing religion.
Witch means that you did not understand anything.

What the ****? We're not lead by America, holy ****. How the hell did that even occur to you? If anything, the EU is a rival to the USA, it's only the UK that doesn't know where it's loyalties lie.
Are you serious ! well,i don't blame you since you don't know what's going on around you !
The American bases are everywhere in Europe,i can't belive that you still don't know !
America is protecting europe from Russia,how strange ! you need some political education.

Which proves what point?
proves that the peace won't spread in the middle east untill they pull out the western bases to allow people to rule them selves,not by khilafah but by them selves.

How does that tie in with the religious ideology,
It's not religious ideology,Ottoman were like Europe now,the revolution of this new age is started by Ottoman,you have a wrong idea about the middle east,it's like china and the US now,they are fighting for their own interests.

propaganda and brainwashing? I thought you were waging war on the west because we have **** morality and are depraved and corrupt and so on and so forth. I mean, it appears that you're saying that much of the Middle East is stuck in the mediaeval era because you have arbitrarily drawn borders and hence you must kill each other until you are united again, and then all the antagonism will be gone and you won't kill each other any longer. Is this plausible?
No no no...! this is bullshit ! please don't go so far...It's not about morality,it's political matter even more than religious matter.
Under khilafah there were some countries rule by another man other than the khalifah ( King ),Like i said before,Abbassya khilafah ruled the middle east but in the same time there was Omawai rule in Andalus (Spain),And some countries in India and china and phillippene..etc.
It's not to Unit but to pull out the foreigner bases.

Hope you got it,I am pretty sure that this is not your fav topics and you are not interesting at all :D
 
Witch means that you did not understand anything.

I understand quite well that you're stuck 100 years back in the past.

Are you serious ! well,i don't blame you since you don't know what's going on around you !
The American bases are everywhere in Europe,i can't belive that you still don't know !
America is protecting europe from Russia,how strange ! you need some political education.

Which means that Japan is really only another state in the USA, right? America is not leading the EU, the EU has it's own agenda and political interest which, from time to time, overlap with those of the US. Bases in the Middle East may mean military occupation, oppression and subversion, it does not in the west. Europe merely has shared interests with America. You need a high dosage of reality.

proves that the peace won't spread in the middle east untill they pull out the western bases to allow people to rule them selves,not by khilafah but by them selves.

Fair enough, we're on your soil, but the Middle East is nevertheless rabid. The atrocities some commit against their own people cannot be justified with reference to the hatred towards westerners the same way as religious rubbish cannot be justified with reference to the same sentiment. The west has simply become an excuse to ignore your own social issues, which are abundant. We didn't bring religious madness and conservatism to the Middle East, which is responsible for much of the pain and suffering. It's like telling a bunch of demonstrators that because of outrageous behaviour of counter-demonstrators their procession will be dispersed.

It's not religious ideology,Ottoman were like Europe now,the revolution of this new age is started by Ottoman,you have a wrong idea about the middle east,it's like china and the US now,they are fighting for their own interests.

So, how come some people have, since, turned ultra-conservative and religious? Because a bunch of Christians and Atheists from the west have converted them to radical Islam?

No no no...! this is bullshit ! please don't go so far...It's not about morality,it's political matter even more than religious matter.
Under khilafah there were some countries rule by another man other than the khalifah ( King ),Like i said before,Abbassya khilafah ruled the middle east but in the same time there was Omawai rule in Andalus (Spain),And some countries in India and china and phillippene..etc.
It's not to Unit but to pull out the foreigner bases.

The Middle East is not special. It is just another region on our planet inhabited by the same species that live elsewhere on Earth. An unreasonable reaction is exactly that: unreasonable. I don't see why we should concentrate on pre-Reconquista times in order to reach a conclusion as to whether the conservative and religious rule and tendencies are ridiculous or not. My mate's from Bahrain and from what he has told me the country is in the shape of any other reasonable country in the world, despite the fact that their oil has mostly ran out, they don't have ridiculous amounts of resources or anything and are pretty near to a number of radical states. How is it that they could embrace statehood?
 
Could some one please lock or delete this thread.

Sorry.
 
Could some one please lock or delete this thread.

Sorry.

Um, why?

As for what I know, I'm not well educated about the Middle Eastern region, I focused on Asia specifically and have very little interest in the Middle East. (Sorry, don't take it personally!)

As for the borders, while this would effect a region obviously, the states have relative autonomy right now to change the borders as they wish. I'm sure they could all peacefully agree to changing their borders if they say down and talked about it... lol

Asking me to explain what I know of the Middle East would be like asking one to tell them EVERY THING about their own country. It isn't like reciting a cake recipe.
 
No need to change the borders but to fulfill the promises,Obama promised to make a new relationship with the islamic world when he came to Egypt,but until now not even one promised was fulfilled but the opposite happend,And now he came to promise the same promises again !
Bush was more clear than this lier,the current government in the white house is another face of Bush government.
Lately,they kept saying "Israel security is a holy thing to us" and "Israel is the most important Ally in the middle east" they don't even reffer to their Arab allies,Obama or Hilary said "Israel is in the middle of enemies" !!!!!!!!!!!!!
And "The relationship between Israel and America is personal and holy" !! WTH !

I noticed lately that the US is using a confrontational tone with Arab-Muslims like if they say "You will stay our enemy forever"

The people in the middle east are like prisioners,they barely get low salaries while they have oil and Gaz ...etc.
All the wealths go to the west but people get nothing but more poor and hunger.
The demogracy in the west only inside their borders.

If you read news everyday your head will blow up.

This is why you hear about suicide bombers time to time,they don't want to fix the problems they caused but they use the media against Islam like if Muslims came from Mars in the past 100 years !
 
That goes for all borders. They're all arbitrary. Borders in Europe, America or Asia are all arbitrary, only they've been drawn ages back and we've since grown used to them.

Not the same thing. Most of the borders in Europe, America, and Asia were determined by people living there at the time, through treaties or conflicts with other countries. The borders in the Middle East were drawn by white men thousands of miles away.

Try to imagine the turmoil that would ensue if someone off in China suddenly declared (and was able to enforce) that instead of the current division, Ireland would be divided by a line down the middle, making West and East Ireland. Or perhaps worse, the same thing in Korea. I think the chaos would take a good long while to die down.
 
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I am afraid of the future,the U.S created a new map for the middle east,I can't imagine what are they thinking of !!

The Current map and borders :



The future map as the U.S thinking of :

The20Project20for20the20New20Middle20Eas-1.webp


The Empire's New Middle East Map: ethnic cleansing and petroleum geography

Can anyone imagine what will happen ?

Notice that the US will betray the Saudi Allies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I am afraid of the future,the U.S created a new map for the middle east,I can't imagine what are they thinking of !!
Hezam, if you keep reading this sort of crap, you're going to drive yourself nuts. The Internet is full of sites like this, run by kooks who sit in their own little echo chambers while they build their fantasy visions of How The World Really Works, all the while scorning everyone else as Idiotic Dupes and "Sheeple".
Can anyone imagine what will happen ?
Notice that the US will betray the Saudi Allies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What would happen is that any U.S. administration dumb enough to suggest implementing such a pipedream project would get attacked so severely by its political opponents that it would make the Bush-Cheney regime look like the height of American political unity in comparison.

Just how would such a redrawing of the Middle East map be managed at all? The U.S. public barely supports our existing military commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan; they sure as hell wouldn't be willing to back the massive forces which would be required to pull this off. The current volunteer military wouldn't be anywhere near big enough, so we'd have to return to a military draft. Fat chance of making that work in today's U.S., especially for something like this. Not to mention that the country couldn't afford the enormous costs of such a military operation even if it wanted it. And a project like this would probably require breaking every international agreement we have in the region, completely destroying our reliability as an international partner for decades, and it would naturally destabilize the entire area, which is exactly the opposite of what the big oil customers in the U.S. and elsewhere want. It could even trigger full-scale war between the U.S. and Russia or China.

Stop scaring yourself with this garbage, Hezam. It's bad for your mental and emotional well-being and it only clouds your understanding of how U.S. foreign policy really ticks. (Hint: it's a messy business, with various factions pushing for different goals which are often in conflict.)
 
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The Obama administration has been focusing on domestic issues, and has had little time, inclination, or political capital to expend on the Arab-Israeli conflict.
 
Joe Biden " I am a zionist "
 
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Which is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. Most people I know here are busy being horrified at how *ANTI* Israel the current US administration is.

Frankly, I wouldn't believe anything Biden had said. Unless, of course, he was stealing another speech from someone else again. (And even then, I'd need a grain of salt the size of a large rock.)
 
Most people I know here are busy being horrified at how *ANTI* Israel the current US administration is.
Great !!
And as i see what's happening on the ground prove with no doubt that the current US administration is more extreme than Bush's administration.

Obama disappointed all people,he talks too much but he did nothing...
 
I don't know. A lot of people think he's done plenty. Plenty of damage, that is.
 
proves that the peace won't spread in the middle east untill they pull out the western bases to allow people to rule them selves,not by khilafah but by them selves.
Um... Middle Eastern countries don't need America to stop peace, they seem to do a pretty good job of starting conflicts all by themselves.
A list of the conflicts in the Middle east.
* 1948 Arab-Israeli War
* 1956 Suez War
* 1967 Six Day War
* 1970 War of Attrition
* 1973 Yom Kippur War
* 1978 South Lebanon conflict
* 1982 Lebanon War
* 1987-1993 First Intifada
* 1982-2000 South Lebanon conflict
* 2000-2007 al-Aqsa Intifada
* 2006 Lebanon War
* Gaza War

I would say that it is pretty peaceful over there....
 
Um... Middle Eastern countries don't need America to stop peace, they seem to do a pretty good job of starting conflicts all by themselves.
A list of the conflicts in the Middle east.
* 1948 Arab-Israeli War
* 1956 Suez War
* 1967 Six Day War
* 1970 War of Attrition
* 1973 Yom Kippur War
* 1978 South Lebanon conflict
* 1982 Lebanon War
* 1987-1993 First Intifada
* 1982-2000 South Lebanon conflict
* 2000-2007 al-Aqsa Intifada
* 2006 Lebanon War
* Gaza War
I would say that it is pretty peaceful over there....
Who caused these wars ?

RolandtheHeadless said:
Don't forget the Iraq-Iran war of the 1980s, and Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990.
This is a different case,but for Iraq's invasion of Kuwait i will say Yes.

The funny thing is the first qoute :D
 
Who caused these wars ?

It was the evul west years and years ago. Honestly bad excuse is bad excuse. Quite frankly, you cannot blame that amount of diplomatic failure on the west. The west is a cause, not the cause. It's like, oh the west's been meddling in the past and so we have a licence to kill. If you succumb to antagonism and animosity then you yourself are to blame.
 
It was the evul west years and years ago. Honestly bad excuse is bad excuse. Quite frankly, you cannot blame that amount of diplomatic failure on the west. The west is a cause, not the cause. It's like, oh the west's been meddling in the past and so we have a licence to kill. If you succumb to antagonism and animosity then you yourself are to blame.
You have to be kidding !
I can't blame them if they stoped the support to Israel,but they are still sending dozens of weapons and money and soldiers and yet the west refused to remove the nuclear weapons from Israel !
And i am not surprsed from what you said since we had enough Hypocrisy for alooooong time ago.
Also why would i blame my self or Arab for example ?
i am afraid if you have no idea what happend and what's happening.
 
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