Falluja = Hiroshima !

[Hezam]

Falluja = Hiroshima/Nagasaki ?

Today in Al-Jazeera news website i saw this news:

http://www.aljazeera.net/mritems/images/2009/10/29/1_948835_1_34.jpg
Origin of women said they Isaadn pregnancy and moving deeds maternal affection and feel their role in the great cycle of life and regeneration, but that the women of the city of Fallujah in Iraq have become alarmed and feel the fear of pregnancy and childbirth, and many of them they decide to stop childbearing mercy for themselves and their babies.
It's not the cost of life and burdens, niether the hardships of living and goods which, what forced them to this resolution, but rather are the effects of the U.S. war in Iraq, especially the second battle of Fallujah in November 2004, which assures the health experts and the environment that the banned weapons that were used in this decimated crops and cattle .
Children born after 2004 in Fallujah - as stated in a letter to doctors, engineers and ecologists to the United Nations - has become a mostly born without heads or two heads or one eye in the middle of the front, or missing members , and most die shortly after birth, and who the proportion of lived has cancer, including cancer of the blood (leukemia).
Terrible Results
According to the letter - which Al-Jazeera had received a copy of it - the month of September 2009 recorded 170 cases of the new birth, 24% of the children died within a week, and 75% were born congenital deformities.
These results are frightening - add the message - when compared to the records of the month of August 2002, which documented the birth of the 530 died, including six children in the first week, and was including the case of deformation only one.
The letter conveys one of the official cemeteries in Fallujah that between four to five children buried every day, most of whom are living with congenital deformities.
In turn, Emphasizes human rights activist and Asma al-Haidari told Al Jazeera.Net, before the U.S. invasion was a rare phenomenon in Fallujah, and after 2004, the rate of birth defects record if one or more per day.
In the same context, a medical source in Fallujahsaid to Al-Jazeera net - who asked not to be named - that the certificates of deaths of children maimed do not mention the cause of death does not describe the situation of children of the deceased.

The U.S. military has committed many crimes against humanity and war crimes.

 

[Chidoriashi]

Other than the effects upon people afterward, as you have quoted, I do not think Hiroshima and Falluja are of comparable circumstances. I have researched quite a bit about why the bombs were dropped and have concluded that it was the best choice among nothing but bad choices. Perhaps you should do some research as well.

 

[undrentide]

Depleted uranium ammunition is horrible, and like mines buried everywhere they used for conflicts/wars (not just in Afganistan and not just by the US military), majority of the victims are children. It's a very, very sad situation.

When checking the term "depleted uranium ammunition" on the net (to make sure), I also found the info that US soldiers are also affected and suffering from the depleted uranium ammunition as they have not been informed about what they're handling, which remainds me of Agent Orange (defoliation used by the US during Vietnam War).
Agent Orange brought horrible result onto Vietnamese people especially babies born afterwards. And US soldiers were also affected.
I cannot (and have no intention to) equate them with the people (children) in Vietnam or Afganistan as the latter are civillians but what I wanted to say is that those weapons affect almost everyone concerned.

Like Chidoriashi, I do not think Falluja and Hiroshima is the same except that there are victims of radioactivity from the weapons in both places...

But I do believe that there's no justification to use depleted uranium ammunition.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Sky News has a very similar article, except that it mentions white phosphorus rather than depleted uranium.

The Latest News from the UK and Around the World | Sky News

Apparently, a British toxicologist is investigating injuries to children in Iraq, and he points out that there have been no studies researching a link between white phosphorus and birth defects. Hopefully his investigations will prompt someone to undertake such a study, although of course that won't help those already suffering in Fallujah.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I was in my physics class last week, and our professor showed us this video in connection with the topic at hand in class

and there was a very short discussion about the way he drove. The comment was made, "People don't have to like us; they just have to respect us."
I think that way of thinking is common in the military, which is why a lot of these things happen.

WWII was a different time, though, and given the mindset of the people calling the shots at the time in Japan, I think it was probably the only way the war could have ever ended, unfortunately.

 

[Mike Cash]

and there was a very short discussion about the way he drove. The comment was made, "People don't have to like us; they just have to respect us."

I think that way of thinking is common in the military, which is why a lot of these things happen.

WWII was a different time, though, and given the mindset of the people calling the shots at the time in Japan, I think it was probably the only way the war could have ever ended, unfortunately.

In WWII we weren't faced with an enemy who strapped explosives to their own small children and used them as weapons.

 

[Hezam]

In WWII we weren't faced with an enemy who strapped explosives to their own small children and used them as weapons.

in WWII the war was justice unlike Iraq war..Iraq war is not right,Iraq war is for Oil...
in WWII was against nazis who wanted to destroy Europe...(just to clear up)

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

In WWII we weren't faced with an enemy who strapped explosives to their own small children and used them as weapons.

I'll grant you that.

Do you think that using depleted uranium is a good way to combat such tactics? I don't know what would work, but I would oppose the use of such weapons.

in WWII was against nazis who wanted to destroy Europe...(just to clear up)

Not on the Pacific front, though. Nazis never ruled Japan.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

Nagasaki always gets shafted when the nuke sensationalism comes out of the woodwork. At least entitle your post "Falluja = Hiroshima/Nagasaki" or something.

 

[Emoni]

My current research is that of the events and situations surrounding Hiroshima and Nagasaki. To compare Falluja to Hiroshima is to be generally ignorant of each unique situation and an attempt to use hype to get attention. This is academically dishonest and also a breech of what I would consider even honest journalist ethics.

To compare major unrelated events in history on an imaginary "bad scale" not only creates incorrect connections, but devalues and over simplifies the situation while creating a mass amount of indirect information.

These issues need to be looked at separately. It is extremely irresponsible to simply post a title like you have in your post.

 

[Rhotel1]

Academic Dishonesty

I am glad to see the comment on this. The lead comments about babies and mothers in Fallujah were bogus. To start with depleted uranium was never used in Fallujah. When the Marines and Army fought the intense house to house battle to root out the cancer that had taken residence there, the enemy had no tanks; there was no reason to fire anti-tank ammunition. What you have is deliberate propganda that has fallen on fertile ground, people who want very hard to believe that US is an ogre even worse than Saddam, that was Saddam's objective in 1992 when the propaganda program against depleted uranium was hatched. Then you have people who say that something exists but there is no proof; isn't it strange how the proof always seems to disappear or is supposedly suppressed and thus can not be presented in open forum. The real reason is that it never existed in the first place. Depleted uranium is one of the most lied about substances on earth. The liars claim that it is used to cause effects on people when all it was was a bullet, a very successful bullet against Soviet manufactured tanks. DU penetrators were designed in the 70's to keep the Soviet Union from over-running Europe in a massive blitzkrieg that would sweep NATO to the North Sea. At the time, anti-tank ammunition would not stop the modern Soviet tank and there were thousands of them poised on the German border just waiting for the start of WW-III. The DU penetrator was developed to stop that very real threat. Thankfully, there never was a WW-III because Europe would have been in ruins and nuclear weapons may have even been used and the entire world may have ended up in ruins. Saddam Hussein had thousands of Soviet tanks; he had a battle hardened Army from fighting Iran for a number of years. DU was used to destroy those tanks. Much of the DU is probably still sitting intact in the desert or just under the desert floor. The 30mm cannon fired penetrator from the A-10 is completely encased in an aluminum shroud. The UN found that this shroud often remained intact and the DU penetrator inside never was exposed to the environment. The penetrators that did not hit a tank in Iraq probably are also still intact with the aluminum shroud. It just has not been safe for an international scientific team to go out in the Iraqi desert and find out if this is true. To learn more about DU, a good place to start is with the video of dinner on a bright orange plate glazed with DU, wwwdotdepletedcraniumdotcom.

 

[Mike Cash]

in WWII the war was justice unlike Iraq war..Iraq war is not right,Iraq war is for Oil...

It is popular to say that America is stealing Iraq's oil. Where is the evidence of that?

Personally, I think the invasion of Iraq was entirely 100% justified yet utterly senseless.

It was sort of like whacking a hornet's nest with a baseball bat. Sure, you can easily destroy the hornet's nest......but what are you going to do with all those p*ssed off hornets afterwards?

 

[bakaKanadajin]

I think you're wrong there Mike Cash. Of course there's no proof, there's never some big smoking gun when it comes to politics. It's slow, steady change over time and then in the end, hindsight, that provides the proof.

Also depends on your definition of steal. If you mean a guy in a trenchcoat shipping it all back to the US in oil barrels labeled 'milk' of course they're not doing that. If you mean opening the country up for foreign investment among ally/neutral countries via a shady installed government and making a tidy sum off protection and infrastructure, maybe.

But if we were to look at the pieces ahead of time and make an educated guess, I'd say that the US is clearly attempting to establish some kind of semi-permanence in Iraq so as to quell fears among antsy investors and give the 'government' time to sort out some deals.

Bases:
Big U.S. Bases Are Part of Iraq, but a World Apart (Published 2009)
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40372.html

Exxon interested:
Exxon aims for big role in Iraq's oil sector

BP, China with a foot in the door:
Iraq Approves Oil Contract with BP, CNPC

Interesting Time article about the main issues preventing development, mainly a greedy and corrup Iraqi gov't and antsy investors worried about security.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1908265,00.html

 

[Mike Cash]

Also depends on your definition of steal. If you mean a guy in a trenchcoat shipping it all back to the US in oil barrels labeled 'milk' of course they're not doing that. If you mean opening the country up for foreign investment among ally/neutral countries via a shady installed government and making a tidy sum off protection and infrastructure, maybe.

You're so right. It was much better when it was the Secretary-General of the United Nations and his friends and relatives scamming the oil for food program with the country under the thumb of a dictator-for-life.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

You're so right. It was much better when it was the Secretary-General of the United Nations and his friends and relatives scamming the oil for food program with the country under the thumb of a dictator-for-life.

Well it's never good for the little guy no matter who's holding the stick, I can admit that. But as for the oil, just calling a spade a spade.

 

[Mike Cash]

Well it's never good for the little guy no matter who's holding the stick, I can admit that. But as for the oil, just calling a spade a spade.

Actually, you're casting specious aspersions based on conjecture. The U.S. isn't pulling tankers up and hauling off Iraqi oil without paying for it.

​

Source

You'd think if the U.S. were going to spend a gazillion dollars and experience several thousand military casualties in order to steal oil from Iraq they'd at least go to the head of the line and steal the lion's share of it and not take a backseat to Asia and Europe.....

 

[bakaKanadajin]

Mike-san, read up a bit, I didn't say they were flat out stealing it in the way you seem to be imagining. I think we're in agreement to that degree. My own country, Canada, is in fact one of the places the US gets most of their oil from, along with other natural resources. No one's bombing us but I'd call their tactics stealing any day.

My point was that the oil wasn't even for sale to the degree that it is now while Iraq was under Hussein and now that he's gone the oil will be sold off cheaply, provided the greedy Iraq puppets can sort themselves out and the security doesn't become an issue.

And yes I think the US and other nations would in fact spend lots of money and resources in order to free up the oil and other goodies, as NATO countries and even countries like Japan are already doing so in Afghanistan to ensure military presence in the region as well as things like the proposed oil pipeline and opium flow moving ahead.

Does military action for economic gain really need to be questioned as a general axiom for modern day motivations for warfare? Let's not be naive.

Pipeline moving along
Turkmenistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan–India Pipeline - Wikipedia
BBC NEWS | Business | Afghan pipeline given go-ahead

Afghanistan world's biggest opium producer
Opium production in Afghanistan - Wikipedia
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Afghan opium fuels 'global chaos'

Actually, you're casting specious aspersions based on conjecture. The U.S. isn't pulling tankers up and hauling off Iraqi oil without paying for it.

​

Source

You'd think if the U.S. were going to spend a gazillion dollars and experience several thousand military casualties in order to steal oil from Iraq they'd at least go to the head of the line and steal the lion's share of it and not take a backseat to Asia and Europe.....

 

[Mike Cash]

My point was that the oil wasn't even for sale to the degree that it is now while Iraq was under Hussein and now that he's gone the oil will be sold off cheaply, provided the greedy Iraq puppets can sort themselves out and the security doesn't become an issue.

So it was better for twenty-some-odd million people to be under the brutal thumb of a dictator who got them better prices for their oil than to be free of him and on the path to freedom and self-determination....got it. That's the modern day equivalent of remarking that at least Mussolini made the trains run on time.

 

[Hezam]

So it was better for twenty-some-odd million people to be under the brutal thumb of a dictator who got them better prices for their oil than to be free of him and on the path to freedom and self-determination....got it. That's the modern day equivalent of remarking that at least Mussolini made the trains run on time.

compared to the present time it was one hundred times better.
where is the money ? All what we see is shaos...

 

[Mike Cash]

compared to the present time it was one hundred times better.
where is the money ? All what we see is shaos...

You're used to the notion of living under a despotic absolute monarchy; I wouldn't expect you to appreciate the idea of freedom and self-determination.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

So it was better for twenty-some-odd million people to be under the brutal thumb of a dictator who got them better prices for their oil than to be free of him and on the path to freedom and self-determination....got it. That's the modern day equivalent of remarking that at least Mussolini made the trains run on time.

You're reading way too much into my comments. I think Saddam was a bastard and truth be told I think the entire Middle East is one big knotted kite string. I'm simply pointing out the motivations behind this modern day Vietnam. Namely, infrastructure contracts and oil, and then more speculative things such as the ability to build bases adjacent to troublesome Iran and solidify control of the Middle East. They've already got bases in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Israel, I mean it's just chess, that's all it is.

By the way, your one-sided comment fails to take into account the role the Americans and British played in the suffering of the Iraqi people throughout the 90's. I can assume we need not even get into British and American forces ruining Iraqi infrastructure via the brutal enforcement of the no-fly zone, etc. (in turn stemming from the Americans having intentionally left him in power with his Royal Guard after operation Desert Storm, thereby eliminating any chance of Iraqi self-rule under their indigenous religious Shiite majority) Sewage, hydro, etc. numerous essential services were in a continual state of upheaval and a lot of disease and poverty ensued.

Coupled with depleted uranium rounds it was quite a hectic decade.

Mike, all I'm saying is this: Iraq's oil is up for sale, there's plenty of cash waiting to be made, and this has been the one major result of the recent invasion, aside from gaining the ability to build bases adjacent to Iran.

Your argument that everything that came after Saddam is somehow better than it was under Saddam is nullified due to the fact that Saddam was to a degree installed and maintained (allowed to live up until a certain point) by the West and that Western forces never really left the area.

 

[Mike Cash]

At least I have gotten you to express what you meant to say rather than engage in the Michael Moore-ish "America is stealing Iraq's oil" slanderous and intellectually bankrupt nonsense; that's all I really hoped to accomplish here.

 

[Hezam]

At least I have gotten you to express what you meant to say rather than engage in the Michael Moore-ish "America is stealing Iraq's oil" slanderous and intellectually bankrupt nonsense; that's all I really hoped to accomplish here.

The Whole war was for the oil,do you really think that America cares about Iraqi people lol.
Do you know what "Black Water" do in Iraq ? they have been sent to kill poeple in the name of God.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

At least I have gotten you to express what you meant to say rather than engage in the Michael Moore-ish "America is stealing Iraq's oil" slanderous and intellectually bankrupt nonsense; that's all I really hoped to accomplish here.

Michael Moore's work has relevance, but I think he over-sensationalizes things to the point of turning intellectual people off a lot of the time. I don't think he's far off the mark, but he's far enough off it at times to reduce the credibility of his work. What he does do well is raise the questions everyone else wants answered and he does it in an easily digested way. As for the rest of what he does, I could agree that it's not so useful.

And for the record I did mean to say that Iraq's oil is being stolen but I would agree it's not in the direct, smash and grab way some people think. More like...they fabricate the need to go in and smash, then smash, then make sure only certain people can grab, provided they receive a kickback. Then afterwards their buddies get the renovation contract to rebuild the store.

 

[Mike Cash]

And for the record I did mean to say that Iraq's oil is being stolen but I would agree it's not in the direct, smash and grab way some people think. More like...they fabricate the need to go in and smash, then smash, then make sure only certain people can grab, provided they receive a kickback. Then afterwards their buddies get the renovation contract to rebuild the store.

Then the blame lies at the door or the United Nations, not the United States.