Discrimination Against Atheists/Agnostics

[Yukiko chan]

Ever since I have started being open about my atheism in my second year in high school, I have been insulted with dozens of derogatory names among which "stupid", "immoral", "mentally retarded", "animal", etc.
"My" mother did her best to spoil my holidays with unending religious lectures, inquisitorial control of whether I did her prayers or not, whether I've read/learned by heart her holy book or not... that is, and she doesn't even know that I'm atheist!! I wonder what she would do then...
I have received dozens of death threats, had some of my magazines burned by classmates "because they promoted wrong and nonsensical ideas", and even been pushed on the stairs once by an fundy...
Even my "friends", whom I may consider among the most enlightened Muslims here, don't restraint themselves from slightly derogatory jokes like "have you had some training for your punishment? The stove is just right there!!" or *holding a knife* "I really feel desperate at going to Janaa (Heaven), I might have to kill you now to save myself" (actually, my two roommates feigned doing that once, then, once I was laid on the ground and totally scared, they started laughing out aloud, saying that it was only a "joke").

 

[Haruspex]

Report to police, surely they will have fun lying on the floor in Slippery Soap Prison.

 

[Yukiko chan]

Report to police, surely they will have fun lying on the floor in Slippery Soap Prison.

Haha... well, that happened two years ago actually; besides, it would have probably created more problems, because it would've meant denouncing myself to the authorities as an apostate (i.e. 3 years of imprisonment at least), and would've created more tension between me and my surrounding, and on the top of that it would've publicized my atheism even more (up to now, only school mates knew about it).

 

[JimmySeal]

it would have probably created more problems, because it would've meant denouncing myself to the authorities as an apostate (i.e. 3 years of imprisonment at least

You can be imprisoned in Germany for renouncing your religion?

 

[Malamis]

You can be imprisoned in Germany for renouncing your religion?

That choked me too.

@ Gregory Iceson
Care to share any more ?

 

[nice gaijin]

I didn't create this thread to "have fun at the expense of the minority." In a previous thread, I came across a few people who said the discrimination they faced in America was prevalent, or at least more prevalent than what I had ever experienced. To me it had just never really been a problem. I became intrigued and wanted to learn if these were isolated cases or if they were as widespread as I was reading them to be.
I'm sorry if you interpreted it as being a thread where atheists can "share their common distaste for religious folk because they are mean and discriminate against them." That is absolutely not how I meant it.

Oh I didn't mean to insinuate that; I've found the level of discourse in this thread refreshing. I only meant to point out behavior I've noticed on both sides of the issue. Discrimination is a difficult word to apply to the way I've been treated, but I can definitely say that under certain circumstances my religious leanings have colored peoples' attitude towards me. I suppose if I had to pick an example, it would be when I responded to a question about gay marriage, and was rebuked with a biblical reference. Obviously, to me such an argument holds no water, but for the other person it was a perfectly reasonable statemet. At that point I had to simply walk away; it's too difficult to find common ground when you're coming from different planets.

 

[Jericho Desu]

Oh I didn't mean to insinuate that; I've found the level of discourse in this thread refreshing. I only meant to point out behavior I've noticed on both sides of the issue. Discrimination is a difficult word to apply to the way I've been treated, but I can definitely say that under certain circumstances my religious leanings have colored peoples' attitude towards me. I suppose if I had to pick an example, it would be when I responded to a question about gay marriage, and was rebuked with a biblical reference. Obviously, to me such an argument holds no water, but for the other person it was a perfectly reasonable statemet. At that point I had to simply walk away; it's too difficult to find common ground when you're coming from different planets.

Yes, the one thing I've never liked about some religions was the 'we're right everyone else is wrong' kind of attitude some people get, it creates close minded people. Of course I'm not bad mouthing religion, I'm not an atheist, but I'm not apart of any major religion either.
In terms of being discriminated against its never really happened to me, because usually my arguement is not about the religion itself, just the way certain individuals teach it, using it like a means to obtain power. I respect any religion that promotes peace and understanding.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I am sure that, with patience and good evidence, it's possible to convince many believers that morality predates religion and that religion shrewdly and properly appropriated existing, innate, and inherited moral precepts as guides to the best in human behavior.

That's quite optimistic. In my experience it's often very difficult to convince believers of anything that requires they change any of their beliefs. Being pedantic, I would rather say "it may be possible to convince some believers"

I think that both sides of the fence are capable of discrimination against the other, and without mutual respect it's difficult to reconcile these our differences.

I agree. So many atheists I know can be downright rude about religion and religious people, without knowing a great deal about religion or taking into account why people hold those beliefs. Can any of us here truly say we've never thought less of someone because of their religious beliefs?

The world goes around cause people have the guts to say "You're wrong!"
No morals are eternal and unchanging, and there are times of rivalry, times of clear domination. Advocating respect is truly a noble thing, but many people misinterpret respect for hurt pride.

Life's not a fair place, its not for the best that some people are under-represented, no, its a fact.
Im not willing to give ground for the sake of respect.

I agree to a point. We should stand up and say "You're wrong!" to the likes of Westboro Baptist Church. But when we're talking about individuals who get some personal comfort in their lives because of their beliefs, we should try to understand why that's so, and not condemn them outright, even if we do believe inside of ourselves that they're wrong.

I'm not just a godless heathen, I've had a lot of exposure to religion and I've also studied it objectively. In some ways, I've found that my rejection of religion is even more of an insult to some people.

It sounds like your attitude is similar to mine. I've always been interested in religion, and can see value in some of the teachings. I was brought up in the church, so I think anyone who has known my family would assume I'm still a Christian unless I tell them otherwise. I wonder if the opposite to what you say might not sometimes be true; that some people might be more prejudiced towards those who have never had any religion, than towards those who at least were brought up in a religious family.

This resembles so much to me exactly the thing I dislike about so many of the organized religions: this unfailing and patronizing belief that one is RIGHT/CORRECT and others are somehow to be "pitied" or otherwise looked down upon for their own worldview.

I want to agree with you from an ethical point of view. But my conviction that there is no god is so strong, that I have to admit I do feel a sort of pity for anyone who believes in something that I just KNOW doesn't exist. But that's a feeling that I try hard to keep very much to myself.

But in effect my grandmother was saying, "She can be anyone in the world, just so long as she's Christian."

Although I haven't experienced any face-to-face discrimination, I do have a similar situation to that to relate. I have a very dear online friend who is a Catholic, as are his whole family. When he told his family about me, he told them I'm a Christian, as his being even good friends with an atheist is unacceptable to his family.

 

[Mycernius]

Never suffered any discrimination due to my atheism in the UK. Most people I talk to are either atheist themselves or agnostic. Those that are theist usually have no problem.

I have only once had the displeasure of being harassed about it by a JW years ago. Every now and then he would go into sermon mode, at which point I would tell him to p!ss off or just shoot holes into his arguments. I started going blood doning because of him. That really got his goat. He had the gall to tell me that there are hundreds of diseases that can't be detected in blood and named hepatitis as one of them!!! Soon after I told him he looked like Satan (well he did. Narrow face, hooked nose and a goatee. Paint him red and stick a couple of horns of him, spitting image). Needless to say myself and a work collegue of mine were both condemed to burn in hell for eternity and he didn't speak to us for 3 months. Result!

 

[Haruspex]

Did he resume brainwashing after 3 months?

 

[Half-n-Half]

Half-n-Half:
I believe that you are instigating. I'm not going to be so presumptuous as to speak on nice gaijin's behalf. Though I didn't interpret his post as one of accusation of this thread being a format for attacking religion. It just seems he's making an observation about the theme we're following and he's comparing that to when an atheist is in the company of the religious majority.
I find the conversation in this thread refreshing. Because I feel I'm long overdo for getting my atheist thoughts put out to people whom can relate as this group does, rather then criticize my opinion on such.

Oh I didn't mean to insinuate that; I've found the level of discourse in this thread refreshing. I only meant to point out behavior I've noticed on both sides of the issue. Discrimination is a difficult word to apply to the way I've been treated, but I can definitely say that under certain circumstances my religious leanings have colored peoples' attitude towards me. I suppose if I had to pick an example, it would be when I responded to a question about gay marriage, and was rebuked with a biblical reference. Obviously, to me such an argument holds no water, but for the other person it was a perfectly reasonable statemet. At that point I had to simply walk away; it's too difficult to find common ground when you're coming from different planets.

Ah OK, I better understand now what you are saying; thanks for clearing it up. Yes, I would have to agree that discrimination and/or aggression does come from both sides. Richard Dawkins certainly comes to mind, although he does bring up valid points.

I have only once had the displeasure of being harassed about it by a JW years ago.

A JW?

 

[Haruspex]

Basically, its them.

 

[Yukiko chan]

That choked me too.
@ Gregory Iceson
Care to share any more ?

Well, not in Germany... in Morocco...

 

[Haruspex]

If I had mates like that in Morocco, I'd put queer porn mags in a dodgy pink wrapping and send it to them hoping some authority will open it. Bwahaha, such an evil plan I have. May I have their addresses? Joking, just joking.

 

[Yukiko chan]

My mags had no porn in them, just articles about some progressive Muslim thinkers who want to revolutionize the interpretations of Koran. I don't think it would have been a problem to them had it been porn instead!! ^_^

 

[Mycernius]

Did he resume brainwashing after 3 months?

Nope, he learnt his lesson for being a pain in the arse. I am a lost cause.

 

[Haruspex]

Nope, he learnt his lesson for being a pain in the arse. I am a lost cause.

I've those fools for my neighbours. Now, I told them to sod off, many many times. Literally every time they approached me over the past years, and nothing worked, nothing. They even got me a Russian copy of their Watchtower, even though I can't read Russian lol, and im guessing once they figure out that the "strange language those heathens speak" is Armenian I can brace myself for some Armenian watchtower bombardment.
Funniest thing is their "Stargate", as I call it. On the second floor of their hut (it is a hut, built by their community), there's a door that opens into the ether, really, no stairs, nothing. I know its wishful thinking, and they don't do that sorta thing, but Im hoping they'll sacrifice each other, or commit dual suicide or something.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I want to agree with you from an ethical point of view. But my conviction that there is no god is so strong, that I have to admit I do feel a sort of pity for anyone who believes in something that I just KNOW doesn't exist. But that's a feeling that I try hard to keep very much to myself.

Interesting. I guess that in my worldview, other people's religious beliefs only enter the picture when they are imposed upon mine. If someone believes in a god, that's their business, not mine.

Said a bit differently, I think this gives me great freedom, because it means that I can see churches for what they are: social institutions. Believe it or not, I actually am considering joining a church when I return to America because of the social benefits it gives. I know that many christians would be offended by this, but for that reason I just won't bring up the fact that I don't believe in any gods. As far as I'm concerned, we all pretty much end up in the same place, so the religious motions that we go through while alive are all equally valid so long as they serve a function.

Keep in mind that in Japan religion is looked upon radically differently than it is in the West, and that way of thinking really has rubbed off on me.

 

[Ashikaga]

....Keep in mind that in Japan religion is looked upon radically differently than it is in the West, and that way of thinking really has rubbed off on me.

That is interesting. Please do expand on this.

 

[ShadowSpirit]

Interesting. I guess that in my worldview, other people's religious beliefs only enter the picture when they are imposed upon mine. If someone believes in a god, that's their business, not mine.
Said a bit differently, I think this gives me great freedom, because it means that I can see churches for what they are: social institutions. Believe it or not, I actually am considering joining a church when I return to America because of the social benefits it gives. I know that many christians would be offended by this, but for that reason I just won't bring up the fact that I don't believe in any gods. As far as I'm concerned, we all pretty much end up in the same place, so the religious motions that we go through while alive are all equally valid so long as they serve a function.
Keep in mind that in Japan religion is looked upon radically differently than it is in the West, and that way of thinking really has rubbed off on me.

Yikes. Can't you opt to just join a club of some sort? Get a hobby, join a bowling league, find a hiking or fitness group. In the end, it is of course your choice. Yet inducting yourself into a religion seems a bit extreme for its social networking. It's like crashing a cult party for the free punch. We all know what happens when you drink the cult punch.

 

[Haruspex]

You're presented the cult dildo? Honestly, church is just for showing off who's more appropriate. Its the best place to go if you want rivalry and rivalry and hatred disguised as faith.

 

[Emoni]

Yet inducting yourself into a religion seems a bit extreme for its social networking. It's like crashing a cult party for the free punch. We all know what happens when you drink the cult punch.

This comparison is gold...

 

[Pachipro]

To answer the OP's original question, no, I have never received any discrimination for being an agnostic, but I would like to add my comments to the debate that has resulted due to the question.

When religious people ask me if I am afraid of going to hell or insist that that is where I am going if I do not "accept the lord" I always ask them, "If your god or Jesus is so full of love and is a forgiving god/savior then why would he condemn someone to hell because they did not believe in him?"

They usually reply that that is the way it is and I respond that it makes no sense to me. I then ask them if their god/Jesus would condemn my wife to hell because she is Japanese and believes in no religion or if their god would condemn people from Africa to hell if they grew up and died without ever once hearing the word of god/Jesus and their response is always "yes, if they have have not accepted Jesus as their lord and savior."

I tell them then that that is no god I want to be associated with and will just take my chances as I, like Tsuyoiko, know I am correct as a true, loving god, would never do something like that. Only a vidictive, jealous, angry god would do something like that and to me that is nothing more than a basic human being and a real god would never be human and would be above that as, after all, isn't that what religion trys to teach us? Doesn't religion try to teach us not to be jealous, vindictive, angry, etc? But we insist on saying that god is just that and will take revenge on any non-believers. What a bunch of hypocritical BS!

As I said numerous times on this forum, religion is nothing more than a way of controlling the populace and brainwashing the people and the religious books were written by men for men and to control men. Nothing more.

Also, doesn't it also come out in the end that the majority of the so-called religious leaders are the most corrupt, arrogant, hypocritical people on the planet? They steal, horde, molest, lie, etc and are usually above the law. Do as we say, not as we do! they tell us. But then they tell us to go out and kill all non-believers in god's name when one of god's commandments is "Thou shalt not kill" What BS! and I just laugh at them and those that cannot think for themselves and just shake my head in disbelief.

As a born and raised Roman Catholic (Catha-holic?) I questioned the nuns at school when Pope John XXIII changed the catholic religion in the 60's and allowed Christians to eat meat on a Friday. We were ALWAYS told that we would go to hell if meat touched our tounges on a Friday. When I asked what would happen to all the people who ate meat on a Friday in the past by mistake and were in hell, would they be let out? I was told it was none of my business and that if they broke the law they would always suffer. At 11 or so years old I began to question religion and gave it up when I became an adult and was no longer forced to obey my parents.

I believe I have become a better and a more whole person because of it in that I am not bogged down by a false dogma and a false religion and I do not hate anyone because of what they believe. If one wants to believe in a religion and a god, then that's fine by me, just please donl't try and force your religion down my throat as no one knows for sure whether a god exists or not and if indeed there is a god, he/she/it is nothing like we are led to believe as it would be way above our puny minds and understanding as a relative infant in this vast billions year old universe of ours.

 

[ShadowSpirit]

*tsk tsk* Pachipro. Don't you know you're not supposed to question your Catholic god? He is a vengeful god afterall. He will send you to hell for working on the 7th day, committing any of 7 deadly sins, and I'm sure if I thought this out a bit more I could think of another correlation to the number 7.

By the way. From all the stuff I've read about what god does to those whom defy him in comparison to what Lucifer does. I'd rather take my chances with Lucifer. Apparently his club is much easier to get into, the fringe benefits are better, and allegedly a lot of my friends are going there anyways. I'm still trying to find the passage in the bible where my spiritual body can somehow magically "roast" in hell. That must be a neat trick too. Your body burns, but heals, and burns again? Nifty.

 

[Remixer]

RE: Discrimination against Atheists

I reside in the Middle East most of the time.

As it probably is to be expected of Arab countries, if someone belongs outside the three accepted religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam, one is unable to receive an official position within the respective Government.

Some countries restrict it to Islam only.

Other than that, as long as Atheists do not break Sharia Law, which applies to everyone, the very most of the people here could not care less.

I have yet to experience or witness discrimination against Atheists in my life.

Cheers


Remixer