Gazza Massacre.....

[Hime]

Can you watch the true meaning of War according to Israel?

I just checked that video and it was removed.....looks like even youtube dont want the world to see the truth

 

[Red5]

Jews and Israelis are not desirable anymore? I don't want to jump to conclusions as to what you mean by that, so could you explain in a bit more detail?

I'm not sure Hitler is the best person to quote if you want to sound authoritative on the subject of Jewish people ☝

Israel and jewish people didn't do any thing good in all their history , and if they did ,no one will refuse them. no one will like them ....

about Hitlar : I know this person was criminal and killed a lot of people , BUT I dont like him as a person ,I like his great ideas ... image that he decided to occupy England and France and those were two great colonial countries in that time ..
and that refere to his ambition and great ideas .

I don't understand what is the reason for this conflict, however innocent lives have been lost and for me that is whats most horrible. That people who just want to live get dragged down, because their or some other government decide there's not enough blood flowing on the streets...

Jericho desu : I'll explain to you bit about Israel and palestine ..
Great Syria was consist of 4 countries (syria , Lebanon , Jordan and Palestine ) ..
in the term of English and France occupation , Palestine was occupied by England and England tried to export a lot of jewish to Palestine and they become more than 200 000
people in palestine ... and jewish people decided to made new country in dreamlan (Palestine ) for history and religious reasons , and jewish refused all options to made their country in other country like ( argentine or some African countries ) and their last decision was in palestine ....
and now jewish divide palestine to many areas , some of them for jewish and a bit for Arab and they kill Arab people every day and try to oblige them to leave their country and now you can see neighboring countries like (Syria , Lebanon , Egypt and Jordan ) have a lot of palestinians refugees in this countries .....

 

[Emoni]

Ok...

Between Hime posting videos of dead babies and jumping to idea that there is a youtube conspiracy, Remixer wishing people dead and proclaiming how amazing he is, to Katsumoto effectively posting Neo-Nazi rhetoric and praise of Hilter...
I think this thread has come to an end.

It started as a one sided propaganda style post, and has slowly shifted to become even darker.

 

[pugtm]

Israel and jewish people didn't do any thing good in all their history , and if they did ,no one will refuse them. no one will like them ....

SO we are undesirable and have not contributed at all to civilization, eh?
i'm not going to argue with you but i think here are some people who might disagree.
after all what do i know?

"I will insist the Hebrews have [contributed] more to civilize men than any other nation. If I was an atheist and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations … They are the most glorious nation that ever inhabited this Earth. The Romans and their empire were but a bubble in comparison to the Jews. They have given religion to three-quarters of the globe and have influenced the affairs of mankind more and more happily than any other nation, ancient or modern."

- John Adams, Second President of the United States
"...If statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of stardust lost in the blaze of the Milky way. properly, the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in this world, in all the ages; and had done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it.
- Mark Twain

"if we were forced to choose just one, there would be no way to deny that Judaism is the most important intellectual development in human history."

- David Gelernter, Yale University Professor

If we had lived in the second millennium BC, the millennium of Abraham, and could have canvassed all the nations of the earth, what would they have said of Abraham's journey? In most of Africa and Europe, they would have laughed at Abraham's madness and pointed to the heavens, where the life of earth had been plotted from all eternity … a man cannot escape his fate. The Egyptians would have shaken their heads in disbelief. The early Greeks might have told Abraham the story of Prometheus … Do not overreach, they would advise; come to resignation. In India, he would be told that time is black, irrational and merciless. Do not set yourself the task of accomplishing something in time, which is only the dominion of suffering. On every continent, in every society, Abraham would have been given the same advice that wise men as diverse as Heraclitus, Lao-Tsu and Siddhartha would one day give their followers: do not journey but sit; compose yourself by the river of life, meditate on its ceaseless and meaningless flow."

"The Jews started it all―and by 'it' I mean so many of the things we care about, the underlying values that make all of us, Jew and Gentile, believer and aethiest, tick. Without the Jews, we would see the world through different eyes, hear with different ears, even feel with different feelings … we would think with a different mind, interpret all our experience differently, draw different conclusions from the things that befall us. And we would set a different course for our lives."

- Thomas Cahill, The Gifts Of The Jews

"Asked to make a list of the men who have most dominated the thinking of the modern world, many educated people would name Freud, Einstein, Marx and Darwin. Of these four, only Darwin was not Jewish. In a world where Jews are only a tiny percentage of the population, what is the secret of the disproportionate importance the Jews have had in the history of Western culture?"

- Ernest van den Haag, The Jewish Mystique

"Wishing to make Speyer into a city, I thought to increase its honor a thousand fold by bringing in the Jews."

- Bishop Ruediger - Huozmann - 1084
"So prominent was the Jewish role in the foreign commerce of Europe that those nations that received the Jews gained and the countries that excluded them lost in the volume of international trade."

- Will Durant, The Story of Civilization - The Reformation.

"The brief legal emancipation of Jews during the Napoleonic wars released unparalleled economic, professional, and cultural energies. It was though a high dam had suddenly been breached."

- Amos Elon, The Pity of It All - A portrait of the German-Jewish Epoch

"For the Jewish impact on humanity has been protean. In antiquity they were the great innovators in religion and morals. In the Dark Ages and early medieval Europe they were still an advanced people transmitting scarce knowledge and technology. Gradually they were pushed from the van and fell behind, by the end of the eighteenth century, they were seen as a bedraggled and obscurantist rearguard in the march of civilized humanity. But then came an astonishing second burst of creativity. Breaking out of the ghettos, they once more transformed human thinking, this time in the secular sphere. Much of the mental furniture of the modern world too is of Jewish fabrication."

- Paul Johnson
(Christian historian, author of A History of the Jews and A History of Christianity

"For many people during many centuries, mankind's history before the coming of Christianity was the history of the Jews and what they recounted of the history of others. Both were written down in the books called the Old Testament, [the Torah] the sacred writings of the Jewish people … They were the first to arrive at an abstract notion of God and to forbid his representation by images. No other people has produced a greater historical impact from such comparatively insignificant origins and resources …"

- J.M. Roberts, History Of The World

"The Jew lends himself easily to Communism because it enables him to devote himself to a high cause, involving all of humanity, characteristics which are natural to him as a Jew."

- Edmund Wilson - U.S. literary critic and author (1895-1972)

...it would be a mistake...to ascribe to Roman legal conceptions an undivided sway over the development of law and institutions during the Middle Ages... The Laws of Moses as well as the laws of Rome contributed suggestions and impulse to the men and institutions which were to prepare the modern world; and if we could have but eyes to see... we should readily discover how very much besides religion we owe to the Jew."

- U.S. President Woodrow Wilson in his The State

you see katsumoto
"Intelligent people know of what they speak; fools speak of what they know."



Emoni, Tsuyoiko, Remixer, bakaKanadajin, Uncle Frank, and everyone else who has been having to deal with this nonsense while i was away and watching our back i thank you for fighting the nazi'sm and blood libels that have been accumulating here. You can't argue with people who do not know history and refuse to accept reality or who believe that hitler had great ideal's. A big bow and thank you to you all.
Case in point, he disproves of supposed Israeli imperialism but approves of Hitlers?
i'm calling a godwins law down on this one.

 

[Hezam]

Israel and jewish people didn't do any thing good in all their history , and if they did ,no one will refuse them. no one will like them.

oh bro !
there is a big defferint between this israel and the old jewish.
and there is a deffernt between the jewish in this era and the old era.
as you know Yemeni Poeple were jewish and they were very good people,after that when islam came they all converted to islam with their desire.

about Hetlir,he was not ideal,he was a criminal person who killed many people ( Christian and Jewish ).So i hate that guy,i didnt find anything good in him !

Anyone killed people is Criminal.
NO one allowed to kill people.
This thread is about the people in Gazza,they are being killed untill this moment,it's not 1 or 2 or 3 persons,We are talking about Hundreds of people ( about 1000 ) !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop the War !

 

[pugtm]

oh bro !
there is a big defferint between this israel and the old jewish.
and there is a deffernt between the Jewish in this era and the old era.
as you know Yemeni Poeple were Jewish and they were very good people,after that when islam came they all converted to islam with their desire.

there is no difference between jew then and now. we have been alive since abraham and will live until the messiah comes. our people have survived since then. i should know, i have only jews in my family tree all the way back to king david.
and jews did not all convert to islam in yemen they left for israel, and there are still some there. in fact the kings of yemen used to be jewish.
today we still are alive and despite the fact that we are so small a people we still have 25% of patents filed in the usa, and are the number 1 group of people who get nobel prizes. whoever says things are changed is not true.

about Hetlir,he was not ideal,he was a criminal person who killed many people ( Christian and Jewish ).So i hate that guy,i didnt find anything good in him !
Anyone killed people is Criminal.
NO one allowed to kill people.

i'm glad we agree, i was saying this to katsumoto who seems to think this is okay

This thread is about the people in Gazza,they are being killed untill this moment,it's not 1 or 2 or 3 persons,We are talking about Hundreds of people ( about 1000 ) !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop the War !

yes lets talk about gaza, out of the app 1000 people killed 850 were hamas fighters and other terrorists. the rest were ACCIDENTAL CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.
of the 8000 missiles fired on Israel in the past 6 months 100% of the INTENTIONAL CASUALTIES WERE CIVILIAN.
or how about hamas executing in cold blood hundreds of fatah supporters?
what about the hamas calls for human shields?
the best way to stop the killing long term is to kill the bad people short term so they can't hurt anyone anymore. we need to stop them from killing the Palestinians and jews.

 

[Hezam]

there is no difference between jew then and now. we have been alive since abraham and will live until the messiah comes. our people have survived since then. i should know, i have only jews in my family tree all the way back to king david.
and jews did not all convert to islam in yemen they left for israel, and there are still some there. in fact the kings of yemen used to be jewish.
today we still are alive and despite the fact that we are so small a people we still have 25% of patents filed in the usa, and are the number 1 group of people who get nobel prizes. whoever says things are changed is not true.

okay that's your opinion,but i assure you that all Original jews converted to islam,those few jews in Yemen is not originaly from the old era,they came from palestin and Saina.
it's okay..

But what makes me veeeeery suprised is this :

out of the app 1000 people killed 850 were hamas fighters and other terrorists

i dont know if it a joke or something else !
You saw the children killed by the israelian bombs 24 hourse around the day !
didnt you see this number of poeple ( non-fighter ) ????????????????????????

 

[pugtm]

okay that's your opinion,but i assure you that all Original jews converted to islam,those few jews in Yemen is not originaly from the old era,they came from palestin and Saina.
it's okay..

maybe, but those are still real Jews. but whatever, we can disagree on that. the rest of the worlds Jews are Jews no matter what happened in yemen.

But what makes me veeeeery suprised is this :
i dont know if it a joke or something else !
You saw the children killed by the israelian bombs 24 hourse around the day !
didnt you see this number of people ( non-fighter ) ????????????????????????

according to the UN:
1,024 Palestinians have been killed and 3,860 have been injured. Of those killed, at least 370 have been reported as civilians.
less than half and all of them by accident.

and the reason so many children have died? THIS


it is Hamas fault that children have died.

and what about hamas killing fatah members
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1053825.html

 

[Hezam]

So can you tell me how did the UN knew that while israel Prevents the Cameras and the correspondents ??

it is Hamas fault that children have died.

does hamas bomb their houses ?
Hamas doesnt use them,they are at their houses ! and they have been killed inside their houses while they were sleeping !

 

[pugtm]

So can you tell me how did the UN knew that while israel Prevents the Cameras and the correspondents ??
does hamas bomb their houses ?
Hamas doesn't use them,they are at their houses ! and they have been killed inside their houses while they were sleeping !

they did not prevent correspondents
Foreign Reporters Return to Gaza
and the UN has relief workers that Israel sent in there. also the numbers came from the gaza government too. the UN and Gaza government put them together.
and yes it does kill people in their houses.
it also launches missiles that kill little girls, and hit schools.
1. it uses children as human shields for terrorists

2. it kills fatah families
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1053825.html
3. it shoots missiles at Israeli children on purpose

 

[Hezam]

okay it still your thoughts,
and we shouldnt judge while we live so far from there.

finally,can you say some ideas about how to Solve the problem ?
that will be better than saying opinions and belives.

 

[pugtm]

i do, muslim people who hamas pretends to represent should tell them to stop and not send them any help. Palestinians should vote for a peaceful normal government and Israel should help them but only if they swear not to kill people. together Palestinians and isreal and egypt should help kill all the terrorists. and then they declare gaza a country and we don't fight anymore. it could be as rich as hong kong. but first terrorists have to stop or be killed to save hundreds later. hamas has made palestinian lives miserable. and isreal needs to start killing as many terrorists as they can so they try to get anymore.

 

[Hezam]

hmmm !!
So why dont israelian people choose another peaceful normal government ?

 

[pugtm]

hmmm !!
So why dont israelian people choose another peaceful normal government ?

they did, isreal protected itself in self defense. although the government was corrupt it was peaceful and normal. there are no terrorists in the government and they did not at anytime shoot opposition parties. they protected the people. now maybe netanyahu will be elected and there will be a real peace.
also hamas still is shooting after israel declared ceasefire.
Israel to cease fire in Gaza, no deal for Hamas

 

[Hezam]

okay,this is your opinion.
BUT you watched the TV and the world said the Oposite.
What do you say about those people who protested against israel ?

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Let's try not to get too emotional, I know that's difficult.

If things get too crazy and hateful , we will have to lock the thread. I realize that as a person who doe's not live in the mideast, I see things different from a member who lives there. I also realize that the news here in the US that I see is a lot different then the news the mideast countries see. I have a feeling the news I see is probably a bit slanted in favor of Israel because we(the US) have been their friend for a long time. Because I can not watch Arab TV or read their newspapers, I look at this thread as a chance to hear the anti-Israel side of things, and broaden my knowledge of the mideast problem. Please try to post factual info , more then emotional. Please try to remain as polite as possible and NOT make personal attacks against other members who disagree with you or fail to understand your post and thoughts.

Uncle Frank

 

[Hezam]

Thank you very much uncle frank for your comment,i really like the way you disccuss things with the others,
uncle frank,if you watched the media in the middleast you ( even if the Arabic media hide the trueth ) you will be shocked.
we saw many many people being killed and rivers of blood,this world is unjustice !
i belive it's better to not talk about the past,but still this issue is very clear !

And i would love to hear from you as far as you are the sherif here in JREF lol ^^

 

[Emoni]

Seems the thread is slightly back to some form of sanity on a relatively insane topic.

I feel that probably a GREAT deal of bias exists in news in the Middle East from what I have seen through a few examples. I also think bias naturally exists in the US as well, but not as much as the Middle East by far (You would be surprised by what has been shown of the Gaza mess on TV, it isn't flattering to Israel at all). I agree with Uncle Frank that there is a lot to be learned by conversation through both sides; HOWEVER, in that regards there needs to be both listening and speaking from both, not just rants about how one side is totally right and then spewing racist and ethnic hate.

Now, from the link that was just posted by Pugtm, there is currently a ceasefire. However, Hamas has ALREADY ignored this and sent missiles directly into Israel in an attempt to continue a conflict that they cannot POSSIBLY win and will result in the loss of more life.

So what should Israel do in response to this? If there is a ceasefire and a withdrawal from Gaza, and Hamas continues to fire missiles into Southern Israel, would you really be surprised if they resume attacks? I sure wouldn't.

However, I also don't see this whole method that has been used as a reasonable way to handle the situation either. Palestine desperately needs to get Hamas the hell out of their government, and they need to reform some sense of control that isn't based around fear and hate (which will be very hard to do if you just lost family to Israel bombing the crap out of your neighborhood carelessly) Hamas is intent on attacks and pure opposition to hurting Israel. This will gain innocent people on both sides NOTHING.

In my opinion, the UN needs to get their butt in gear and actually DO something for a change instead of sitting around talking and complaining. Large scale armed peacekeeping forces need to be sent into Gaza via an agreement between Israel and Palestine in order to have an balanced intermediary involved. Both to resort Gaza and eliminate Hamas from trying to incite further attacks during a ceasefire that will only result in trying to get Israel to obliterate Gaza (which is NOT the answer).

Of course... do you want to sign up for that sort of job of going in under the UN? Especially when the UN was already attacked "accidentally" by careless screw ups by Israel?

 

[Hezam]

The Israelian Tanks still in Gazza !
Why dont they leave ?
how could people calm down without israel get out of Gazza ?
how wonder !

 

[Emoni]

There is a difference between not being able to "calm down" and firing rockets into another city...

Yes, they should pull back if it is a ceasefire, but that doesn't happen immediately ever if an area is occupied as far as I know.

 

[Red5]

There is a difference between not being able to "calm down" and firing rockets into another city...
Yes, they should pull back if it is a ceasefire, but that doesn't happen immediately ever if an area is occupied as far as I know.

before the war between Gazza and Israel , every day there are a lot of killing in palestine and my country has completely coverage in news and what's happening in palestine . People in palestine didn't feel security from long time and they builded great wall to seclude between jewish and Arab ....
and this picture for every day life in Palestine ...

http://www.0zz0.com

@ Uncle Frank ....

thanks for your comment .. we don't want to wish death to any person , coz god will judge them , we just want to live in peace life and wish to others live as they wish ,

p.s ... I want from people to understand what's happening in Palestine and don't don't speak in emotional ideas

 

[pugtm]

before the war between Gazza and Israel , every day there are a lot of killing in palestine and my country has completely coverage in news and what's happening in palestine .

anyone who has relatives in the middle east gets complete coverage. we get israeli and arabic media online. look up al jazeera or arutz sheva or debka.

People in palestine didn't feel security from long time and they builded great wall to seclude between jewish and Arab ....

yes and immediately it started to save lives and crime dropped by hundreds of percent.

and this picture for every day life in Palestine ...
http://www.0zz0.com

could just as easily be jewish pictures

except we do no usually parade our dead around. but here they are, no less than any palestinian except they were killed on purpose.

p.s ... I want from people to understand what's happening in Palestine and don't don't speak in emotional ideas

the very fact you are using pictures means you are using emotional ideas. pathos if you will instead of logos.

 

[Hezam]

We dont know if those dead people were solders,and see the baby the picture is on a paper,and also the pictures are old.i dont know where you got them from.
We are showing the current victems.
NO WAY you can compare the numbers of victems between both sides.

Israel is the biggest criminal and terrorest country and israel is the country who doesnt respect the laws EVER.

 

[Emoni]

Once again, instead of focusing on how to move things forward and improve things, it is right back to "which sides sucks more!" all over again.

Showing pictures, videos and such, doesn't really do anything. They are short clips that are completely out of any context and could be pictures from anywhere in the world almost. Even news stories will ONLY give context within that specific incident, not a "score board" of who has been "more bad." This is pointless unless you can show some serious and well done research on numbers and incidents. So stop even posting these pictures and videos because they aren't useful.

Right now the most important thing is that this crap ends, and doesn't continue. A ceasefire has been called, and Hamas has already announced they won't follow it and fired rockets into Israel. Israel responded by an air strike on that area and right now the ceasefire is holding loosely while there are talks for Israel withdrawal. Aid is being let in and world leaders are meeting in Egypt to discuss further aid.

Seriously, the only thing that is going to benefit those innocent on either side is a stop to this crap.

we don't want to wish death to any person , coz god will judge them

Just so you know, there is a fine line between the emotions of vengefully wishing death on someone and wishing a divine being to punish them. That line is constantly crossed when suicidal bombers, militants, and religious fanatics decide to "help God" by murdering people cause they were told to do it. This goes for both sides.

 

[Emoni]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090118...alestinians;_ylt=Ar1gJM_ZOhcovgZTrM5GCgxvaA8F

Israel is pulling out and Hamas has stopped rocket fire for now, after sending in almost 20 rockets before the pull out announcement during the cease fire...

The question is "now what?"

(If anyone knows of an English report from the Middle East on this event, it would be interesting to see it posted.)