Gazza Massacre.....

[Hime]

It has been a while since I come here.....hope everyone is fine

I wonder how different people from different countries look at the current Issue of Gazza Massacre in Palestine with around 804 people killed and more than 3310 people injured in its day number 15 according to the latest news....here: http://english.aljazeera.net/

 

[Emoni]

Any military thing like this, is a mess. However, no means do I consider this a "massacre."

I don't know the whole story, only bits and pieces I've seen and in something like this we won't know "most" of the story for a while. I've heard two main points about the start of it. One saying that Israel assassinated 3 Hamas leaders prior to the start of the rockets, and then saying that Hamas just started firing rockets.

I do not like the way Israel has handled things at all; however, at the same time. Groups like Hamas and maniac whacko bombers and psychos have to be dealt with some way. Unfortunately, Palestine has allowed and fostered the group to continue to build up. If you are getting suicide bombers, attacks, bombs, and rockets fired at you constantly by a certain group... well I sure as hell don't blame anyone for going out to stop and kick that groups ***. The semi-scorched earth method of going about that and iron fist mentality however has led to equally awful acts. While I blame Hamas MORE, I leave blame for Israels methods as well.

Over all, I find the whole religious and hate based situation between Islamic sections and Jewish sections one of the stupidest conflicts this world has seen. Yes, it is sad and yes people are dying, but the whole situation is insane and often at times I feel like just not bothering to think about it keeps a wall up against that entire essence of insanity from seeping into me.

Sometimes I truly wonder the value of saying, "If you people want to kill yourselves... go for it. Just leave me out of it." My ONLY concern is that it escalates and other countries such as Iran or nearby countries get involved increasing the chance of the US jumping in and escalating crap to the level of World War III. Even more scary to me is if that were to happen before Bush is out of office...

 

[bakaKanadajin]

I think labeling it a massacre, despite a high death toll, is not the right terminology for a balanced discussion right off the bat.

But at any rate, with Israel now fighting the war on two fronts I think this is probably a very viable candidate for the epicenter of the next terrorist-based shock and awe initiative. A middle-east crisis SO attention-diverting, possibly drawing in Iran and even Russia, such that domestic issues in the US are more easily swept under the rug and more NWO agenda can be progressed, is definitely something I could see the neo-con controlled American government perpetuating.

It's not a new tactic to shift media balance from domestic to foreign issues when domestic issues need to be quietly dispatched in shady fashion. I'm just speculating but I could see this escalating to an all-out conventional Israel/Iran war, (essentially another US/Russian proxy war) or it could reach a tense state and threaten to go nuclear or something like that, around the same time the US economy officially collapses.

 

[Hime]

I think the name massacre fit the purpose, why?
because the leading position is very obvious that its going to Israel who killed people blindly, even the schools were not save from them. Its also very obvious who is the stronger and who has the more developed weapons, who use the forbidden weapons on the citizens.........all of that make the name fit the purpose perfectly


When we have a group of dead people found under the corrupted homes.....or killed all at once by the rockets and found their body parts scattered over the ground, we even can call it as a group massacre.

this is all just remind me of the holocaust....

 

[Hime]

Something like this.......................

 

[Dove]

I totally agree with @Hime
what z happening there is a massacre!! Im not saying that because of where i come from or because the fact that we share the same religion. i would feel the same if it happened in somewhere else.
it is really horrible, what i see is dead women and children: twin sisters were killed, a mother of 9 was protecting her children in the corner of the house and a missile from Israel's forces hit the house and she and her children were killed while she was hugging them, dead children were found under corrupted building, dead bodies (and some of them without head) are everywhere in Gaza and many and many horrible things happened there. Yes i consider this a massacre...

 

[Emoni]

Being careless in war and civilians getting killed (which happens sadly in every war) vs. wanton slaughter of those in an area, are two different things. Both are awful, but only the latter is a massacre.

I don't believe for a second that Israel is purposefully killing mothers and children. I believe they are just not being careful enough at all that they don't.

There is a lot going on right now, and there has been for a long time. All of it awful and quite stupid, mostly being based around territory and framed in religious stupidity. Showing a few pictures of people on the ground and hurt, and a building blown up doesn't make it a massacre. As much as I know it might hard to do, stand back and try to sort through the events from and unbiased perspective and don't angle things with emotional terms quickly. That doesn't do any good what-so-ever.

I'm not condoning what Israel as doing, because any time innocent people die it is awful. However, it is quite different between massacring and purposefully killing innocent people, and them being killed in the crossfire.

 

[Red5]

some people in the world playing video games and listening music and live in peace life and other people have dying in every day life .....
as Hime mentioned about the numbers of dead and wounds ,
4 journalists are killed and 16 ambulance were destroyed by Israel's force using reconnaissance planes and A16 planes , even unimal didn't be saved by Israel .
after all that Israel declared that they didn't want to kill the citizens !!!
after that brutality action , for natural , there is reaction against Israel's force ,
until now there are some hand-to-hand fighting between Israel's force and resistance .
like Hime posted some pictures , and it's no thing according in massacres that Israel had done .

 

[Red5]

I'm not condoning what Israel as doing, because any time innocent people die it is awful. However, it is quite different between massacring and purposefully killing innocent people, and them being killed in the crossfire.

so what is the difference between them ??!
every day palestine has a lot of killing in citizens people ...
no need to explain, you can watch BBC news , and by the way USA's government doesn't show for it population what did it do in other countries in right news and now what you're watching in your news ( I don't wanna say that it's wrong ) but it's totaly abridged ....
and you can see all new news in the site that Hime post ...

Aljazeera English ..... see here what's the weapon that Israel use

BBC world news

 

[Grandpa Frank]

News coverage is different this time.

I have to admit, I am surprised about the news coverage here in the US. Usually in the past, the news media seemed 100% behind the Israelies. This week I saw a great deal of negative reporting about overkill by the Israelie military. It seemed all 3 major news channels were anti-Israel and I don't remember seeing that happen in the past. When a regular military force in uniform has to fight an enemy dressed as civilians and hiding among civilians, no good can come of it. One thing for sure, women, children, and innocents are dying on both sides which is very sad.

Uncle Frank

 

[Red5]

I'm sorry for my wrong thought

I don't know that news in USA is coveraged !!! ☝

I know that there are a lot of people in USA or over the world didn't like what's happening in palestine nowadays ....

although there are also a lot of manifestations over the world but all of them was invain ....

the people now see every thing in news by sites or T.V but yet in Syria we're so near to events and all news were NEW

 

[Ma Cherie]

I have to admit, I am surprised about the news coverage here in the US. Usually in the past, the news media seemed 100% behind the Israelies. This week I saw a great deal of negative reporting about overkill by the Israelie military. It seemed all 3 major news channels were anti-Israel and I don't remember seeing that happen in the past. When a regular military force in uniform has to fight an enemy dressed as civilians and hiding among civilians, no good can come of it. One thing for sure, women, children, and innocents are dying on both sides which is very sad.
Uncle Frank

Wow, I was thinking the same, Frank. You're correct, in the past the US media was always behind Israel and their actions and they would never criticize Israel even when they're clearly in the wrong.

Though I wouldn't say it's been anti-Israel, but for once we're getting a picture of the other side.

But when it all comes down to it, it's basically senseless killing.

And for what?

 

[Emoni]

Wow, I was thinking the same, Frank. You're correct, in the past the US media was always behind Israel and their actions and they would never criticize Israel even when they're clearly in the wrong.
Though I wouldn't say say it's be anti-Israel, but for once we're getting a picture of the other side.
But when it all comes down to it, it's basically senseless killing.
And for what?

Agreed, there has been much more condemnation of the way Israel has handled this than things in the past.

As for the purpose... this time it is to stop rockets which were sent because.... and because of... and because off... (logic like this)

It's stupid as hell, but for one thing, it sure as hell isn't just one side that is bad. That is one thing that I am always frustrated to see, when people jump up and declare Palestine as some sort of victim. Hell no. Now when I say that I'm not talking about civilians who are innocent and dying, I'm talking about the government and organizations within Palestine and their actions. Neither side I see as a victim anymore. Those not involved, both on the Palestine side and Israel side are equally innocent.The same goes for those doing wrong... however that is defined outside of the careless deaths of civilians.

 

[Hime]

Israel using illegal chemical weapons

NOTE: according to the CIA Factbook, "44.7% of Gaza's population is
14 years of age or under

The AP photo above shows what appears to be a white phosphorus shell fired into Gaza, as was used by Israel in
Lebanon. White phosphorus is an indiscriminate killer that ignites once it is exposed to oxygen, producing such heat that it bursts into a yellow flame and
produces a dense white smoke.

It causes painful burn injuries to exposed
human flesh, as discovered by Lebanon's Children at the hands of Israeli Phosphorus Bombs in 2006.

White Phosphorus is considered a chemical
weapon by most governments around the world. Its use in civilian areas is banned by the Geneva
Treaty of 1980. The United Nations considers such weapons illegal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...acks-artillery
and
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5470047.ece

Those weapons were mainly designed to burn a remote goal like other rockets or planes, but its used in Palestine on areas where citizends exist "which is forbidden according to the international regulation on using such phosphoric weapons". All doctors in Palestine said that all killed or injured people suffer from ambiguous unclear injures that cant be shown in Xrays. Mostly they suffer from internal bleeding as a result of extensive bleeding. the unclear injures made them disable to save those people

 

[Raurtom]

What little I have picked up is that right after the cease fire between Hamas and the Israelli goverment expired the rocket attacks towards Israeli settlements resumed, after which Israel retaliated, and the rest is history.

I believe that it's terrible that civilians etc. are being killed, however - they made the choice to support Hamas fully aware of the consequences. You can say whatever you want but inside Hamas are extreme radical militaristic groups who's philosphy is that they'd rather fight then reach to peaceful solutions. Although I believe that resorting to violent acts of retaliation is never a good option, I do believe however that it's understandable that Israel reacted the way it did.
The people in Palestina chose for Hamas and other anti israel organisations fully aware that it could lead to what is in essence right now a civil war.

I do however condemn the use of indiscriminate firing and chemical weaponry let's get that straight.

As people stated above, there are no victims in this conflict and I believe both are equally to blame for the current escalation of violence. All I can say is I really don't care that much anymore, let them slug it out.. there isn't going to be a change of mind in that part of the world in a loong time anyway, the animosity runs to deep for that to happen.

 

[Emoni]

Israel using illegal chemical weapons

NOTE: according to the CIA Factbook, "44.7% of Gaza's population is
14 years of age or under

The AP photo above shows what appears to be a white phosphorus shell fired into Gaza, as was used by Israel in
Lebanon. White phosphorus is an indiscriminate killer that ignites once it is exposed to oxygen, producing such heat that it bursts into a yellow flame and
produces a dense white smoke.

It causes painful burn injuries to exposed
human flesh, as discovered by Lebanon's Children at the hands of Israeli Phosphorus Bombs in 2006.

White Phosphorus is considered a chemical
weapon by most governments around the world. Its use in civilian areas is banned by the Geneva
Treaty of 1980. The United Nations considers such weapons illegal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...acks-artillery
and
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5470047.ece

Those weapons were mainly designed to burn a remote goal like other rockets or planes, but its used in Palestine on areas where citizends exist "which is forbidden according to the international regulation on using such phosphoric weapons". All doctors in Palestine said that all killed or injured people suffer from ambiguous unclear injures that cant be shown in Xrays. Mostly they suffer from internal bleeding as a result of extensive bleeding. the unclear injures made them disable to save those people

I just saw an American News report talking about the use of white phosphorus stating that they were NOT considered chemical weapons... I understand how they might be though by some organizations.

I checked back on yahoo's news page but I don't see the report right now. Maybe someone else saw it?

I am curious Hime. Do you have any thoughts on how to resolve the situation between Israel and Palestine?

 

[Red5]

I just saw an American News report talking about the use of white phosphorus stating that they were NOT considered chemical weapons... I understand how they might be though by some organizations.

I checked back on yahoo's news page but I don't see the report right now. Maybe someone else saw it?

any weapon has bad effect in bodies consider chemical weapons ....
and without USA news said that , you can notice that from harm effect that can hurt the blood and flesh in the human ....

I am curious Hime. Do you have any thoughts on how to resolve the situation between Israel and Palestine?

my opinion I'll tell you after Hime give ur her ...☝

 

[Hezam]

How funny !!
after you saw all those palestinian Victims you still say israel doesnt mean to kill people !

i wanted to post this thread 2 weeks ago but i was sure i will hear stuped comments like this.

All israelian people are Criminals.they support the Occupation.
many people around the world protesting.
Do you belive that israel has the right to Occupate palestain ?
U.S. support to israel will breed what they call "terrorism" !
You live in peace and judge poeple,but if you were there in Gazza you will change your mind.

DON'T complain if the Terrorists start bombing again.

that's because the U.S. support.
I dont want to see Terrorist acts !
I saw how good the american people is,but the problem is the government.
STOP foolish acts !

 

[Emoni]

any weapon has bad effect in bodies consider chemical weapons ....
and without USA news said that , you can notice that from harm effect that can hurt the blood and flesh in the human ....
my opinion I'll tell you after Hime give ur her ...☝

Bullets fire, and stabbing people also have a bad effect on the body. What you stated as the definition of a chemical weapon isn't correct. I don't necessarily go with the US side saying it isn't a chemical weapon, but I do not know enough about the weapon and use itself to judge for myself. I'd have to check first.

I am curious about your opinion, as well as Hime's. Most of all, I'm curious about what you see as a way to resolve the situation.

As for Hezam blanket labeling and justifying or promoting violence directly aimed at innocent people just because they are labeled as non-innocent is absurd. That logic is exactly why this crap continues endlessly.

 

[Hezam]

That logic is exactly why this crap continues endlessly.

This is what israel dont want to talk about because it's the true problem.
gathering people from defferint countries to Occupy a country full of original people then calling the Occupier "Innocent",is it hard to accept this fact ????? !

Do you accept that to your country ?
i know you dont want to answer.but it's fine.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

All israelian people are Criminals.they support the Occupation.

I find this comment extremely offensive. This is a gross generalisation and, in my opinion, evidence of the worst kind of ignorance.

 

[Hezam]

thanks for your opinion Tsuyoiko,but that's a fact no one can ignore it or refuse it.
they came to occupy the land.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

thanks for your opinion Tsuyoiko,but that's a fact no one can ignore it or refuse it.
they came to occupy the land.

To refute your claim I have only to find one single Israeli person who does not agree with the occupation. As for your claim that all Israelis are criminals, should we start by arresting new born babies?

 

[Emoni]

This is what israel dont want to talk about because it's the true problem.
gathering people from defferint countries to Occupy a country full of original people then calling the Occupier "Innocent",is it hard to accept this fact ????? !
Do you accept that to your country ?
i know you dont want to answer.but it's fine.

I'm not really sure what you just said actually... as for occupation, it isn't that simple and I believe you are aware of that. A UN partition plan failing and crap hitting the fan as a spark in a failed attempt to deal doesn't quite count as an "occupation." As for "my country" I don't represent the thoughts of "my country" I represent only my own on this subject. Something I don't specialize in one bit just to stress.

My only concern would be how to resolve the situation. Your proposition that seems to be that all the violence is justified and you are HEAVILY biased. I don't see how that mindset helps one bit other than continue things the way they are. I see the conflict as ultimately quite stupid and barbaric from both sides, and my only concern ultimately is that it doesn't spread outward into a larger war. I feel sorry for anyone getting stuck in the middle of this crap, on both sides of it.

thanks for your opinion Tsuyoiko,but that's a fact no one can ignore it or refuse it.
they came to occupy the land.

Stating all Israeli citizens are criminals IS an opinion, not a fact. BIG difference and it would do you well to learn that. Do at least keep biased and inflammatory remarks in an appropriate context.

 

[Hezam]

Tsuyoiko,there are israelian people who want to live in peace WITH the palistenian.
BUT most of israelian want to destroy palestainian.
in my country ( Yemen ) there are about 50,000 Jewish live in peace with us and we protect them,we dont allow anyone to hurt them.

Emoni,Do you think Hamas terrorists ?
they have the right to protect their own land,just like you.
and how could you compare Hamas's weapons to the israelian weapons ?
can you say the truth !