What ARE your legal rights in Japan as a foreigner?

[orochi]

And you missed the point.

I think you are still missing the point. You went to the station of your own volition to file some paperwork. ID was required and you presented it no problem. That's fine. We're not talking about what forms of ID are acceptable to use in different situations.

The problem we are talking about is when people are stopped on the street and asked to present ID to identify themselves in "immigration checks".

Whether or not you have to use your gajin card as one of your IDs when signing up for a video rental card, registering at a hotel, or filing for parking permits is not the issue at hand.

 

[Glenski]

Whether or not you have to use your gajin card as one of your IDs when signing up for a video rental card, registering at a hotel, or filing for parking permits is not the issue at hand.

But these can be equally valid points, too.

Store clerks are not obliged to copy your alien card for registration at hotels or video rental shops. You are a resident. That's enough, and all they need to do by law is LOOK AT the card.

But I digress.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Excuse me, Dave, but just because 100% of the foreigners are not racially profiled, that doesn't mean this is a nice situation. How many need to fall into that category of discrimination before you believe it?

Never said it was nice.

And, how do you respond to the reports that cops stop foreigners because of bicycles being stolen, yet they don't really come up with reasons other than that? I mean, they didn't say FOREIGNERS are stealing bikes, just that bikes are being stolen, yet many people have written about having been stopped, then watch as police blatantly let Japanese on bikes pass them by. If they're going to stop people on bikes due to bike theft in the area, they should stop everyone.

And how many foriengers have stolen bikes in the past? The fact of the matter is that a small minority of people who come here for a good time for a short period abuse the rules and ruin it for the rest of us. The police are just reacting to that. How many Japanese do things like this? And may not be relevent to this disscussion ,but it gives reason enough to target foreign looking people
We are a product of our own stupidness and the sooner people realise this the better.

I think you are still missing the point. You went to the station of your own volition to file some paperwork. ID was required and you presented it no problem. That's fine. We're not talking about what forms of ID are acceptable to use in different situations.
The problem we are talking about is when people are stopped on the street and asked to present ID to identify themselves in "immigration checks".
Whether or not you have to use your gajin card as one of your IDs when signing up for a video rental card, registering at a hotel, or filing for parking permits is not the issue at hand.

And when I was pulled over for speeding I was asked to produce my licence and not my gaijin card. So unless there is a licence for riding a bike, what else are they going to ask for?

 

[Emoni]

We are a product of our own stupidness and the sooner people realise this the better.

"We" isn't me, you, nor anyone else. No more than "We" is every single Japanese who goes over to China for a sex fling, goes and gets drunk and violent in a bar abroad, or stabs some people in Akihabara.

The sooner "We" realize that, the sooner things can improve. It is this mindset that locks everyone into the situation that exists now with law enforcement in Japan.

At a dorm I was staying at, before everyone went back one semester there were some ping pong tables that were completely destroyed in the building and thrown out front. Everyone was talking about how the "Americans" probably did it. "We" didn't, in fact the Americans living there were so sick of that they ratted the Australian guy who did it out. Now with that video above, and my story does that mean now Australians are the true "threat to Japanese peace" that the police must watch for? Of course not. It means basing judgments on stereotypes instead of actual crimes and evidence is what is the issue, not "look I saw some foreigners do stuff, lets focus on them" even if that isn't even the issue.

 

[FrustratedDave]

"We" isn't me, you, nor anyone else. No more than "We" is every single Japanese who goes over to China for a sex fling, goes and gets drunk and violent in a bar abroad, or stabs some people in Akihabara.

The sooner "We" realize that, the sooner things can improve. It is this mindset that locks everyone into the situation that exists now with law enforcement in Japan.

What world do you live in? When did the actions a few not affect the laws you have now in the states? You are sadly mistaken if you think we will ever be judged for each person that we are. That is the reality, look at the security at airports these days... But the argument will come up as this is done across the board, but the fact remains that a few individuals ruined it for the rest of us. So what you are esentually suggesting is a standard for each individual? How is the police suppossed to do this so called "individuall treatment plan"? Any police department uses profilling to catch suspects, if they didn't we would have a much less safer society as it would take a lot longer to find criminals( and I am talking about other countries too, not just Japan)

At a dorm I was staying at, before everyone went back one semester there were some ping pong tables that were completely destroyed in the building and thrown out front. Everyone was talking about how the "Americans" probably did it. "We" didn't, in fact the Americans living there were so sick of that they ratted the Australian guy who did it out. Now with that video above, and my story does that mean now Australians are the true "threat to Japanese peace" that the police must watch for? Of course not. It means basing judgments on stereotypes instead of actual crimes and evidence is what is the issue, not "look I saw some foreigners do stuff, lets focus on them" even if that isn't even the issue.

Like I have said before , stolen bikes is not the only thing that needs to be checked. Face it, you are a visiter here and things have to been monitored.

 

[orochi]

Face it, you are a visiter here and things have to been monitored.

Some people would say that opinions like that make things harder for everybody else.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Some people would say that opinions like that make things harder for everybody else.

And foriengers are not monitored anywhere else in the world, including the states?

 

[orochi]

And foriengers are not monitored anywhere else in the world, including the states?

<palm_in_face>That's as irrelevant as your driver's license argument.</palm>

 

[FrustratedDave]

<palm_in_face>That's as irrelevant as your driver's license argument.</palm>

How is that irrelevant? And I would love to hear you reasoning behind why the drivers licence example was irrelevant, seeming though you choose not answer it.

 

[Glenski]

Never said it was nice.

It was implied when you wrote "of corse there is racial profiling, but is it so in every case of a foriegner being stopped?"

You didn't answer my question, though.
just because 100% of the foreigners are not racially profiled, that doesn't mean this is a nice situation. How many need to fall into that category of discrimination before you believe it? Change "believe" to "accept" if it sounds better to you.

And how many foriengers have stolen bikes in the past?

The police seem to think enough do to stop foreigners on bikes. That's enough.

The fact of the matter is that a small minority of people who come here for a good time for a short period abuse the rules and ruin it for the rest of us. The police are just reacting to that.

I agree with the former statement, but not completely to the latter. There is more at play here than just a kneejerk reaction by police.

And when I was pulled over for speeding I was asked to produce my licence and not my gaijin card.

Now that is what I would call an isolated case.

So unless there is a licence for riding a bike, what else are they going to ask for?

We both know there is no such thing to carry around, but bikes can be licensed, so one way to verify is to see your address, which is on the alien card. As I wrote earlier, not all foreigners carry driver's licenses to prove their ID, so a foreign-looking face forces the police to think "alien card". The problem at times is when ONLY the foreigners are being stopped. THAT is the issue here.

As for the YouTube video, I've seen it before. It is indeed stupid, and it shows what some foreigners are capable of, especially when they are drunk, young, and ignorant. It is not necessarily a reason for the police to target them for ID checks at random (which is what I believe one of our main points is here). The jerk in the video got off lightly, as far as I'm concerned, but we didn't see the whole proceedings on video.

Any police department uses profilling to catch suspects, if they didn't we would have a much less safer society as it would take a lot longer to find criminals

Does this "profiling" include the inflated and skewed figures the National Police Agency reports to the government and public on foreign crimes? Does it include the "gaijin crime" magazine that was published (with photos and data that sometimes could only have come from inside sources within the police force)? Does this include the police-sanctioned signs posted near ATMs depicting ONLY FOREIGNERS as potential criminals out to steal money from unwitting ATM patrons?

C'mon, Dave, admit that the police here engage in racial profiling that targets foreigners when it is not always deserved.

 

[KirinMan]

Some people would say that opinions like that make things harder for everybody else.

How so? It is a fact, visitors are monitored while in country. Reason being that there are too many that stick around illegally.

Care to justify your reasoning now?

 

[FrustratedDave]

It was implied when you wrote "of corse there is racial profiling, but is it so in every case of a foriegner being stopped?"
You didn't answer my question, though.
just because 100% of the foreigners are not racially profiled, that doesn't mean this is a nice situation. How many need to fall into that category of discrimination before you believe it? Change "believe" to "accept" if it sounds better to you.

To answer the question. I could not put a number on "how many" ,but we only seem to get information from those who have and we all know that those people cry the loadest. I have yet to see statistics that the majority of foriegners are regulary stopped on their bikes by traffic cops, in my mind it is still a minority. I am not sure I understand peoples reactions here, do you want the police to not stop any foriegners on bikes at all? If not ,what is the acceptable percentage of people that could be stopped without it constituting racial profiling. BTW Japanese people get stopped all the time, so they are not singleing out forigners.

The police seem to think enough do to stop foreigners on bikes. That's enough.
I agree with the former statement, but not completely to the latter. There is more at play here than just a kneejerk reaction by police.

I still don't see why it is not a kneejerk reaction.

Now that is what I would call an isolated case.

I don't see why my multible examples are isolated. Any thoughts on why in my cases I did not have to show my alien card?

We both know there is no such thing to carry around, but bikes can be licensed, so one way to verify is to see your address, which is on the alien card. As I wrote earlier, not all foreigners carry driver's licenses to prove their ID, so a foreign-looking face forces the police to think "alien card". The problem at times is when ONLY the foreigners are being stopped. THAT is the issue here.

Exactly, so naturally they ask for the alien card. But it is not only foriegners that are being stopped???

As for the YouTube video, I've seen it before. It is indeed stupid, and it shows what some foreigners are capable of, especially when they are drunk, young, and ignorant. It is not necessarily a reason for the police to target them for ID checks at random (which is what I believe one of our main points is here). The jerk in the video got off lightly, as far as I'm concerned, but we didn't see the whole proceedings on video.
Does this "profiling" include the inflated and skewed figures the National Police Agency reports to the government and public on foreign crimes? Does it include the "gaijin crime" magazine that was published (with photos and data that sometimes could only have come from inside sources within the police force)? Does this include the police-sanctioned signs posted near ATMs depicting ONLY FOREIGNERS as potential criminals out to steal money from unwitting ATM patrons?
C'mon, Dave, admit that the police here engage in racial profiling that targets foreigners when it is not always deserved.

Look I don't agree with the campaigns to rid foriegn crime(although, the government have every right to address this issue, it is just the way they go about it that could be seen as wrong) and the government deliberately overacting in regards to this. And is there some truth what you are saying, maybe. But, I don't see it it as a big a problem that some are trying to make it out to be.

 

[orochi]

How so? It is a fact, visitors are monitored while in country. Reason being that there are too many that stick around illegally.
Care to justify your reasoning now?

Because opinions like "I'm just a visitor" and "I don't deserve equal treatment" do nothing but maintain the status quo. It's lazy and irresponsible.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Because opinions like "I'm just a visitor" and "I don't deserve equal treatment" do nothing but maintain the status quo. It's lazy and irresponsible.

ARE YOU A CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY? If the answer is no why do you expect the same treatment as a citizen? You statement is ridiculus and selfish. So not being able to vote is another thing you are against?

 

[Emoni]

ARE YOU A CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY? If the answer is no why do you expect the same treatment as a citizen? You statement is ridiculus and selfish. So not being able to vote is another thing you are against?

Calm the hell down there...

The key point by the whole thread was to protect one's self legally. Why? Because even if you aren't a citizen, that doesn't mean you should be treated with constant suspicion, little legal ground, twisting of the law by the police, and punishments that do not fit the crime (For get your card accidentally, or even your wallet that your card is in? Oh you now could spend the night at the police station even if they DO know who you are).

You're not a citizen so you don't deserve fair treatment that may be afforded regular citizens? What did an innocent visitor ever do? More often than not, nothing.

Again this thread is to protect one's self legally, it isn't to simply tell people to shut up because they are a visitor and not a citizen. It would be nice if some people check the prejudice at the door please.

I'm sorry if others are personally not effected by certain issues and feel that those who are should shut up about them, but I believe otherwise. If you haven't dealt with issues such as this, or aren't concerned, don't state to other than they simply should say nothing and lay down. This sort of aggressive apathy brings absolutely no positive benefit and never has.

None of us posting on this thread are criminals or evil people looking to cause trouble as far as I know. That is what the system exists to oppose, to not want to be in the way of that system when it is at times highly misdirected is by NO MEANS an unreasonable desire!

For an international forum, to see such a short-sighted and small-minded of argument with no logical or positive sense behind it is sickening. Orochi said it perfectly when he stated, "Because opinions like "I'm just a visitor" and "I don't deserve equal treatment" do nothing but maintain the status quo. It's lazy and irresponsible."

The statement "You're not a citizen, shut up." should NEVER be used on this board in my opinion. It is prejudiced, rude, devoid of reasoning, and a highly harmful and negative attitude. It has no place on a forum that promotes international interaction in my opinion.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Calm the hell down there...
The key point by the whole thread was to protect one's self legally. Why? Because even if you aren't a citizen, that doesn't mean you should be treated with constant suspicion, little legal ground, twisting of the law by the police, and punishments that do not fit the crime (For get your card accidentally, or even your wallet that your card is in? Oh you now could spend the night at the police station even if they DO know who you are).
You're not a citizen so you don't deserve fair treatment that may be afforded regular citizens? What did an innocent visitor ever do? More often than not, nothing.

ﾂ Who is being treated with constant suspicion? I have been here for a long time(close to 15 years) and been to many different cites on business trips and not once have I ever been looked at upon the way you are suggesting. But , I must be an isolated case. (inserts roll eyes smiley)

Again this thread is to protect one's self legally, it isn't to simply tell people to shut up because they are a visitor and not a citizen. It would be nice if some people check the prejudice at the door please.

What exactly are you looking for here?

I'm sorry if others are personally not effected by certain issues and feel that those who are should shut up about them, but I believe otherwise. If you haven't dealt with issues such as this, or aren't concerned, don't state to other than they simply should say nothing and lay down. This sort of aggressive apathy brings absolutely no positive benefit and never has.

What, because it may sway the balance of people who haven't experienced this not in your favour? Another ridiculus statement be you. BTW stil waiting for that answer to my other question there bro.

None of us posting on this thread are criminals or evil people looking to cause trouble as far as I know. That is what the system exists to oppose, to not want to be in the way of that system when it is at times highly misdirected is by NO MEANS an unreasonable desire!

And the people in this thread constitute the majority of foriegners in Japan? You are failing to see the big picture I feel.

For an international forum, to see such a short-sighted and small-minded of argument with no logical or positive sense behind it is sickening. Orochi said it perfectly when he stated, "Because opinions like "I'm just a visitor" and "I don't deserve equal treatment" do nothing but maintain the status quo. It's lazy and irresponsible."

The statement "You're not a citizen, shut up." should NEVER be used on this board in my opinion. It is prejudiced, rude, devoid of reasoning, and a highly harmful and negative attitude. It has no place on a forum that promotes international interaction in my opinion.

You make it sound like we are in balls and chains. If you want the same rights as a citizen, become one. B/c the fact remains that people overstay their visas , enter illegally , so there needs to be a system to control this and the Japanese have the alien card. I have been knocked back by credit card companies b/c I was foriegn, now I wonder why this was? (I certainly make enough) The fact is that other foriegners have racked up debts and left without paying, so the card companies don't have a leg to stand on, what would you expect them to do? Keep lossing money? And the list is long of what foreigners have done and left to evade any backlash, like I said before the minority ruins it for the majority.
Becoming a citzen means that you are willing to devote yourself to that country, it is a symbol that requires great sacrifice as giving up your citizenship from your country of birth is very hard. But ,it sounds to me like you like you want the whole cake and eat it too.

 

[orochi]

Being a citizen or not isn't relevant when we are talking about the equal protection that is offered by the law to citizens and non-citizens alike.

So not being able to vote is another thing you are against?

Yes. I pay taxes here. I pay unemployment insurance. I pay into a welfare program that may not see any returns when I retire. I think it would be nice if I had a say in how the money I pay is used.

Some municipalities in Japan that offer voting rights to permanent residence holders seem to agree with me as well.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Being a citizen or not isn't relevant when we are talking about the equal protection that is offered by the law to citizens and non-citizens alike.

And we are not afforded this? I think you are confusing things quite a bit here.

Yes. I pay taxes here. I pay unemployment insurance. I pay into a welfare program that may not see any returns when I retire. I think it would be nice if I had a say in how the money I pay is used.

Why will you not see the returns? B/c you will go home before you can recieve the benifits?

Some municipalities in Japan that offer voting rights to permanent residence holders seem to agree with me as well.

So you pay your taxes and insurance, but should that qualify you to make decisions about the future of a country that you may have no intensions on staying through to the end of your working life? Any numbskull can pay taxes and I certainly don't want them voting for things that may affect my future. And yes, then you will say that there are numbskulls who are Japanese, but the difference is they are citizens of this country and no other. Permanant residency presents a whole different issue, a least you have met the qualifications set by the government to be considered a resident and have made a certain amount of commitment to become a resident. But that is not what we are talking about is it?

 

[orochi]

And we are not afforded this? I think you are confusing things quite a bit here.

I didn't say we weren't afforded those rights. I'm saying that since the law provides equal protection to citizens and non-citizens alike, your question "ARE YOU A CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY?" is irrelevant.

Why will you not see the returns? B/c you will go home before you can recieve the benifits?

Because many people have already had their payment info "lost". Because of a decreasing working population. Because of missing money in the pension system. The list goes on. I hope I can collect, but it's a risk I take every month I put money into the system. I would rather invest it on my own since the government is proving rather ineffective.

So you pay your taxes and insurance, but should that qualify you to make decisions about the future of a country

I say yes. I knocked the last part of this question off since you have no idea how long I plan on staying in Japan and shouldn't have assumed anything.

but should that qualify you to make decisions about the future of a country that you may have no intensions on staying through to the end of your working life?

Now let's look at this sliver separately. Right now I have voting rights in my birth country. I don't plan on living there the rest of my working life.

Permanant residency presents a whole different issue, a least you have met the qualifications set by the government to be considered a resident

I don't have to have permanent residence to be considered a resident of Japan. I am already a resident of Japan. Anybody who is registered at their city hall and carries a gaijin card is a resident. I also pay residence tax. So I'm not sure where you're coming from. Remember that citizen and resident are two separate concepts.

 

[Glenski]

Thanks for the answer, Dave. I'm going to quote something you said at the end of your message because it is extremely valid.

Look I don't agree with the campaigns to rid foriegn crime(although, the government have every right to address this issue, it is just the way they go about it that could be seen as wrong) and the government deliberately overacting in regards to this.

This is the crux of my arguments, and you & I seem to agree. That's good.

I fail to understand, therefore, some of your other points and reasoning. I myself have never been stopped on a bike, and only once in 10 years has any police officer asked to see my ID, yet we both know this happens a lot to many foreigners. The fact that you and I have been fortunate does not mean the issue is nonexistent, and what you wrote above suggests that you believe it truly exists. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the way you write, it seems that your biggest complaint is in how certain activists (no single individual in mind here!) cry out (not cry "wolf") over the problems. Am I close?

To answer the question. I could not put a number on "how many" ,but we only seem to get information from those who have and we all know that those people cry the loadest. I have yet to see statistics that the majority of foriegners are regulary stopped on their bikes by traffic cops, in my mind it is still a minority.

I don't have the figures either, and I strongly suspect there are regional disparities, but the fact that many foreigners cry (loudly gets one heard, you know) out when they are singled out should mean something. It is this point (the singling out when it is obvious and admitted by cops) that I fail to understand why you don't see it.

I am not sure I understand peoples reactions here, do you want the police to not stop any foriegners on bikes at all?

Of course not. The point, as I just explained, is that in some areas, ONLY foreigners are stopped.

I don't see why my multible examples are isolated. Any thoughts on why in my cases I did not have to show my alien card?

You only cited one person (you) and one instance ("And when I was pulled over for speeding I was asked to produce my licence and not my gaijin card.") That is the isolated case I referred to. As for why you didn't get asked to show your alien card, I don't know, and I suspect there are other cases of the same.

Even I can attest to similar things. Japan's biggest activist for human rights, Debito Arudou, has run story after story about how foreigners are asked to show their alien card when registering in hotels, and how illegal it is to copy such, yet the hotel staff continue to do this. He advocates fighting back by citing the law. Fine, so be it. That's Debito's way. However, as I related to him recently on another forum, I myself registered at a hotel and didn't even bother to write my passport number on the form. No questions asked. None. Zip. So, Debito's examples of racial profiling don't happen to everyone, but that still doesn't mean that people aren't treated that way.

Originally Posted by orochi View Post

Being a citizen or not isn't relevant when we are talking about the equal protection that is offered by the law to citizens and non-citizens alike.

FrustratedDave:
And we are not afforded this?

No, Dave, many are not.

And is there some truth what you are saying, maybe. But, I don't see it it as a big a problem that some are trying to make it out to be.

I'm glad you recognize there is a problem. Activists will speak about such things loudly (and not all activists,mind you, do that). That is the best way they can be heard. It doesn't diminish the importance or existence of the problem.

 

[FrustratedDave]

I didn't say we weren't afforded those rights. I'm saying that since the law provides equal protection to citizens and non-citizens alike, your question "ARE YOU A CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY?" is irrelevant.

Why is it irrelavent, this whole discussion is about the few laws that are applied to non japanese citizens for perfectly legitmate reasons, but we are still afforded the same amount of protection as citizens through the law.

Because many people have already had their payment info "lost". Because of a decreasing working population. Because of missing money in the pension system. The list goes on. I hope I can collect, but it's a risk I take every month I put money into the system. I would rather invest it on my own since the government is proving rather ineffective.

Oh, and this only happens to foriegners... I am sure the Japanese people are doing their best to have the correct returns met when they retire or have a different system available. This still does not give you the right to vote and make decisions for the Japanese people just because you pay taxes.

I say yes. I knocked the last part of this question off since you have no idea how long I plan on staying in Japan and shouldn't have assumed anything.

I never assumed anything, everything to do with you or anyone else not planning on staying here for life were questions , not assumptions. Well that is great , come here and pay taxes for month and then have the right to vote without having the slightest clue about what is going on. Half the non Korean foriegn community don't have the Japanese skills of a kindergarten student, how are they suppossed to make well informed decisions?

Now let's look at this sliver separately. Right now I have voting rights in my birth country. I don't plan on living there the rest of my working life.

Wow, thats a supprise. No ask your self the pecentage of people that come here for work and stay here for the rest of their lives? I somewhat agree with the zainichi commuinty being allowed to vote, but that is also a different kettle of fish.

I don't have to have permanent residence to be considered a resident of Japan. I am already a resident of Japan. Anybody who is registered at their city hall and carries a gaijin card is a resident. I also pay residence tax. So I'm not sure where you're coming from. Remember that citizen and resident are two separate concepts.

So does this mean you see the difference between the two? Maybe I should have specifically stated visa status insteed of using the word resident? So if you want to play words games be my guest.

 

[orochi]

Why is it irrelavent, this whole discussion is about the few laws that are applied to non japanese citizens for perfectly legitmate reasons, but we are still afforded the same amount of protection as citizens through the law.

The law offers equal treatment. For example, the police must have reason to suspect someone is up to trouble before stopping them for official questioning and demanding ID. This applies to citizens and non-citizens alike. Therefore, you yelling at me for not being a citizen is irrelevant. I have the same rights here.

Oh, and this only happens to foriegners...

I didn't say it did.

This still does not give you the right to vote and make decisions for the Japanese people just because you pay taxes.

I didn't say it did.

Half the non Korean foriegn community don't have the Japanese skills of a kindergarten student

Do you have any statistics to back that up?

So if you want to play words games be my guest.

I am not playing games. I am trying to have a conversation. Don't get snappy at me because you are misusing words.

Look.
You said this:
Permanant residency presents a whole different issue, a least you have met the qualifications set by the government to be considered a resident and have made a certain amount of commitment to become a resident.

You made an error. As I pointed out, it is not necessary to get permanent residence to be considered a resident. If you meant something different, then please let me know. If you meant "citizen" when you said "resident", you have to tell me. Don't just get snappy and try to close the argument. All I know of your opinion and views is what you post. I cannot read your mind.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Thanks for the answer, Dave. I'm going to quote something you said at the end of your message because it is extremely valid.
This is the crux of my arguments, and you & I seem to agree. That's good.
I fail to understand, therefore, some of your other points and reasoning. I myself have never been stopped on a bike, and only once in 10 years has any police officer asked to see my ID, yet we both know this happens a lot to many foreigners. The fact that you and I have been fortunate does not mean the issue is nonexistent, and what you wrote above suggests that you believe it truly exists. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the way you write, it seems that your biggest complaint is in how certain activists (no single individual in mind here!) cry out (not cry "wolf") over the problems. Am I close?

Don't get me wrong, I don't see it as non existant more so, not to the extent that some are saying.

I don't have the figures either, and I strongly suspect there are regional disparities, but the fact that many foreigners cry (loudly gets one heard, you know) out when they are singled out should mean something. It is this point (the singling out when it is obvious and admitted by cops) that I fail to understand why you don't see it.

I do see it, but I what I don't see is this happening across the board. So I have to assume that like you say there are regional disparities which are most likely due to the few who ruined it for the rest of us. I know you are not saying that either.

Of course not. The point, as I just explained, is that in some areas, ONLY foreigners are stopped.

I can't comment of that as I have no information to say otherwise. So I will take your word.

You only cited one person (you) and one instance ("And when I was pulled over for speeding I was asked to produce my licence and not my gaijin card.") That is the isolated case I referred to. As for why you didn't get asked to show your alien card, I don't know, and I suspect there are other cases of the same.

When I was talking about my experiences not being issolated, I was refering to the many situations I have been in and a police had every right to ask to see my alien card but didn't.

Even I can attest to similar things. Japan's biggest activist for human rights, Debito Arudou, has run story after story about how foreigners are asked to show their alien card when registering in hotels, and how illegal it is to copy such, yet the hotel staff continue to do this. He advocates fighting back by citing the law. Fine, so be it. That's Debito's way. However, as I related to him recently on another forum, I myself registered at a hotel and didn't even bother to write my passport number on the form. No questions asked. None. Zip. So, Debito's examples of racial profiling don't happen to everyone, but that still doesn't mean that people aren't treated that way.

I have also never been asked to produce my alien card at a hotel and regulary go on business trips all over Japan.

No, Dave, many are not.

I beleive we are afforded the same protection. So we will have to agree to disagree.

I'm glad you recognize there is a problem. Activists will speak about such things loudly (and not all activists,mind you, do that). That is the best way they can be heard. It doesn't diminish the importance or existence of the problem.

No it doesn't. But it does not give someone the right to demand how a country should be run b/c that is how it was back at home.

 

[orochi]

I beleive we are afforded the same protection.

The law gives us the same protection.
The problem is when those in power choose to offer varying levels.
This could be a police officer or a hotel manager.
This is where the problem is--execution and enforcement of the law.

 

[KirinMan]

Because opinions like "I'm just a visitor" and "I don't deserve equal treatment" do nothing but maintain the status quo. It's lazy and irresponsible.

No one made the comment about "I dont deserve equal treatment" yet it is arrogant to expect that as a foreign visitor you should expect to be treated as a citizen.