When is different not different?

[caster51]

In that case, my thinking is that our direction should be to take advantage of that difference. Instead of worrying whether the difference makes us better or worse, we should put that difference to work for usﾂ…. From difference rises creativity. The roots of inferiority toward the West run deep among the Japanese people, but to see ourselves and our differences in that manner acts only to further deepen that inferiority complex.ﾂ" .............................

It is our duty as Japanese toward the rest of the world to make a conscious effort to study the Japanese language brain that we have inherited in order to make better use of our natural creativity

.

if this is a nationalism, it would be nice contrubution to the world
it does not make an enemy to other
let's creat new world with Japanese brain for peace

 

[gaijinalways]

But you haven't answered the question caster?! There really is no difference, just like the ridiculous studies purporting that Japanese intestines were longer than other nationalities, this kind of pop-science doesn't serve any real purpose.

As to natural creativity, everyone has this to some degree. If you read through any literature, the Japanese are not often credited with being very orignal, but rather good at taking proven processes and improving them.

Dispensing propganda seems to be a 'new' skill they are working on.

 

[Glenski]

Well, I guess I have to thank caster for replying, but I have absolutely no idea what he is talking about in regards to nationalism being a contribution to the world.

It's pseudo-science at its best. What is the purpose of trying to show there is a difference when there is absolutely no physiological difference at all, caster? No "if" answers, ok? Tsunoda just wants more money to conduct his biased and poorly based "studies". What's your motive for putting this topic out there?

 

[caster51]

http://www.c-s-p.org/Flyers/9781847182890-sample.pdf


Japanese brain

there is a difference action by language surely..

There is a difference of working of a left brain and a right brain, too.
I think that it should know it if it is a Japanese characteristic.
of course, there is an evil practice ,too

http://joumon-juku.com/mail_maga/2007_12_04-2.pdf

http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cach..._12_04-2.pdf+日本語　右脳　外国語　母音&hl=ja&ct=clnk&cd=4

why is Japanese not good at speaking english? LOL

as Basho said:

静かさや岩にしみいる蝉の声
ah, the quiet... penetrating the rock, the voice of the cicada

 

[Glenski]

Japanese brain
there is a difference action by language surely..

why is Japanese not good at speaking english?

It's not the brain, caster. It's the environment here. Japanese born abroad must still have the same genetic disposition in their synapses, yet they can speak English perfectly. Or do you disagree?

Do you also believe the myth about Japanese intestines and snow being different?

Anonymous: "Don't p!ss down my back and tell me it's raining."

Oh, and thanks for your first link. The authors of that first article completely support what we've been saying, not you. And, one of them is Japanese.

 

[Mike Cash]

why is Japanese not good at speaking english?a

The main reason Japanese are not good at speaking English? Other Japanese.

 

[lonesoullost3]

why is Japanese not good at speaking english? LOL

Because the language education system in Japan leaves a lot to be asking for.

Also, while English carries all the sounds in Japanese, Japanese has a limited phonology, which makes it harder to create the sounds in English. If you're really just talking about language learning differences, one theory suggests a concept similar to a series of "switches" in our brain. Depending what language we first learn, some switches get turned off when we don't use them, while the ones we do use stay on. The "switches that are "off" can be turned back on, but only through lots of disciplined practice and immersion in an environment that uses those "switches." So you could say that sounds like 'i' in 'bird' and 'r' and 'l' are turned off in a native Japanese speaker (but that has nothing to do with genetics - just first language). This is a part of Chomsky's universal grammar.

 

[MadamePapillon]

I had that 'language incompatibility' happen to me in reverse. This Japanese girl at my old school was trying to teach me to say her name properly (it was spelled Rie but pronounced Lee-eh) and while I could say it properly I had to really think about what I was saying otherwise I kept calling her ree-aye.

But all sound differences aside, the excuse that 'Japanese can't learn English because they speak Japanese' is complete BS. I can't say why some appear to be so adamantly against learning English...could this be another of those superiority issues revealing their inner insecurity of foreign cultures. Maybe. ☝

 

[Glenski]

How can a Japanese name have a pronunciation with a letter that isn't even in their phonemic language set, MP?

 

[nice gaijin]

I had that 'language incompatibility' happen to me in reverse. This Japanese girl at my old school was trying to teach me to say her name properly (it was spelled Rie but pronounced Lee-eh) and while I could say it properly I had to really think about what I was saying otherwise I kept calling her ree-aye.

The Japanese 'r' is an alveolar tap/flap. It takes place in the same place as the English 'r' and 'l' sounds, but it is equal to neither. It's common to replace the sound with one you are familiar with

 

[gaijinalways]

But it would be Rie, just as Reiko is used (not Leiko). I guess a Western prefence for the 'r' initial pronunciation.

 

[Chidoriashi]

Actually though many Japanese tell me the sound is actually closer to "L" than it is to "R"

 

[MadamePapillon]

I think it is closer to an L but it has an odd little R-like roll in there to...hard to explain...I think you actually have to put your tongue a little farther back in your mouth while pronouncing it that you do with an L which you say while pressing your tongue against your teeth.

 

[nice gaijin]

Actually though many Japanese tell me the sound is actually closer to "L" than it is to "R"

That is because they do not understand the phonology of either the Japanese R or the English L. Re-read my previous post and look at this chart. The Japanese 'r' is in the same column as l and the upside-down r (English L and R), meaning it takes place in the same part of the mouth, but the articulation is different. You can even click on the characters for example audio of each consonant; the sounds are a bit exaggerated but the difference should be very clear.

The main reason one would say the Japanese R is closer to the English L than the English R is because both the English L and Japanese R have contact between the tongue and the alveolar ridge at the beginning of the sound, whereas the English R is an approximant, meaning the tongue comes close but does not touch the roof of the mouth. However, the sounds are more complex than this, and the Japanese R and English L are still very distinct from each other.

 

[Chidoriashi]

I am fully aware that they are distinct sounds, I was simply stating that to Japanese people my accent, when I speak Japanese, sounds more natural to them when I lean towards an "L" sound when I say ら、り、る、れ、ろ。 I know they don't know the difference between the 2 sounds in English, I am just repeating what they have told me they feel when they hear English speakers speaking Japanese. Therefore Romaji writing, would probably be better written with "Ls" than "Rs" for purposes of English speakers being able to more naturally pronounce Japanese.

 

[nice gaijin]

If English speakers want to more naturally pronounce Japanese, they need to learn how to properly pronounce Japanese instead of trying to approximate native English sounds to Japanese ones. As I said, the sounds are more complicated than I explained, and substituting one foreign sound for another hardly does anything to make one's Japanese more "natural"

 

[Relic2279]

I must have a Japanese brain inside my American head.

When I hear the high pitch sound of a mosquito near my ear, it translates into words that sound like "squash me quick!"
And when I hear the sound of a bee buzzing near me, it translate to "get the hell away from me or I'll sting your lazy ***!"

Left brain for the win.



~R

 

[Damicci]

If English speakers want to more naturally pronounce Japanese, they need to learn how to properly pronounce Japanese instead of trying to approximate native English sounds to Japanese ones. As I said, the sounds are more complicated than I explained, and substituting one foreign sound for another hardly does anything to make one's Japanese more "natural"

I do agree with this. But to get back to topic. Wouldn't it be fair to say for example a western child adopted by Japanese parents would grow up to have the same mind set of a Japanese child? Or is caster saying that these "Brain functions" are genetic to Japanese only. I would think this is do to environmental stimulus as mentioned before.

 

[gaijinalways]

Seems like it would be, just as an adopted Japanese baby raised by American parents in the US, always hearing English (assuming that is the language the parents spoke at home) would speak English as a native.

All this, despite his Japanese brain!

 

[caster51]

All this, despite his Japanese brain!

it means he does not have the japanese brain

 

[Damicci]

So In short you have to be raise din Japan. Has nothing to do With Ethnicity but Culture.

 

[Glenski]

As usual, caster is full of unsupported nonsense. There is no "Japanese brain". Damicci is correct in his/her assumptions about adopted children.

Don't agree? What about kids born to Japanese parents who move to another country? The kids stand a good chance of their environment (not any genetic predisposition or family life) producing a non-Japanified "brain". Vice versa, too, in the case of a Japanese spouse married to a foreign one and raising their kids in Japan. Life is a box of chocolates. Japanese brain, indeed!

Also, Damicci, being raised in Japan could still afford a child enough experience to not have this Japanified attitude that caster is leaning towards defining. Could name you many cases of kids who grow up in Japan with western attitudes. Depends on how many trips abroad they have, for one thing. Or on how the family values are imparted. Basically, it is not a "Japanese brain". Environment is a HUGE factor here, and that doesn't exclusively involve where one lives.

 

[Mars Man]

Caster51 said, it means he does not have the japanese brain.

This can only be most fully accurate if by 'Japanese' we mean 'culturally saturated Japanese language only acquisitioned.' (where acquisitioned is in opposition to learned)

 

[diceke]

Makes me wonder if anyone has read the quote in the OP?

The significant part of Prof. Tsunoda's discovery is that the Japanese pattern of hearing nature sounds in the language sphere is not a matter of ancestry, but rather dependent on whether Japanese was the first language learned.

☝

 

[caster51]

Makes me wonder if anyone has read the quote in the OP?
☝

It was useless though I explained.