Belonging (neg.)

[timetopartyhard]

Figured I'd try a new thread. I think I worded this one much better and much clearer.


I'm basically looking for the negative of the verb used to describe someone that is out of place, however, not literally. Someone who is out of place, figuratively. Such as being out of place with life or existance. However, since the words do not match perfectly between Japanese and English, it's been difficult. The word must also carry minimal negative connotations.
好適

The negative, would it be 好適ではない?

Also, 帰属意識. I'm not sure of it's negative though. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thank you!!

 

[Elizabeth]

Figured I'd try a new thread. I think I worded this one much better and much clearer.
I'm basically looking for the negative of the verb used to describe someone that is out of place, however, not literally. Someone who is out of place, figuratively. Such as being out of place with life or existance.

Feeling of alienation = 疎外感 (Negative associations will vary)


"Out of place with life or existance" is not a phrase, concept, state of being or bounded feelings and sets of experiences I am familiar with in English.

 

[timetopartyhard]

Alienate isn't quite the word I'm looking for. Alienate means "To cause to become unfriendly or hostile; estrange;" "To cause to become withdrawn or unresponsive; isolate or dissociate emotionally," and "To cause to be transferred; turn away."

In English, being out of place with your life or existance, basically means to be existing in a fashion other than you should be. It could mean anything from having potential greater than your destiny to it's exact opposite.

Hope it helps!

 

[timetopartyhard]

Also, I found out 帰属意識 is a noun. So, if anyone knows what it's opposite would be...

Or, if possible the opposite of 帰属 would probably be just as good.

Thanks : )

 

[Elizabeth]

Alienate isn't quite the word I'm looking for. Alienate means "To cause to become unfriendly or hostile; estrange;" "To cause to become withdrawn or unresponsive; isolate or dissociate emotionally," and "To cause to be transferred; turn away."

In English, being out of place with your life or existance, basically means to be existing in a fashion other than you should be. It could mean anything from having potential greater than your destiny to it's exact opposite.
Hope it helps!

Not particularly. Not only is "to alienate" is a complete twisting/misrepresentation of my response, "out of place with your life or existance" is not an acceptable or standard English phrasing I have encountered anywhere before this unfortunate episode. It is also extremely vague and could be a description of anything from experiences of a heightened sensitivity or sense of "unreality" about life to "feeling estranged from the objective world" to "disaffection with different parts of their own personality," etc...

My question now is how could you expect a more specific terminology in Japanese ???

 

[timetopartyhard]

Alienate is exactly what your response was. And what I listed are textbook definitions. That feeling is hardly what I am looking for. There was no "twisting."

Secondly, if you've not run into the situation and if you cannot conceptualize it, then you shouldn't bother responding. Furthermore, if your response is little more than haughty complaints then you have even less business posting.

Lastly, if you actually take the time to READ the first post, I am not looking for more specific terminology. I'm looking for the verb that would be used in a sentence of the same context, in Japanese.

I posted before concerning bachigai, and it was ultimately determined that it's negative connotations made it unsuitable for the context. I've listed possible words above as well. If anyone else would like to clairify them for me, that would be great. : ) Thanks!

 

[Elizabeth]

Alienate is exactly what your response was. And what I listed are textbook definitions. That feeling is hardly what I am looking for. There was no "twisting."

So it is your opinion that "to alienate" is synonymous with "feelings of alienation?"

Lastly, if you actually take the time to READ the first post, I am not looking for more specific terminology. I'm looking for the verb that would be used in a sentence of the same context, in Japanese.

What is the verb in English ?

 

[Ashikaga]

I am pretty sure that someone else has written the same thing in a different thread with the same question but I will write it again.
If it takes multiple posts let alone multiple threads to explain in English (your native language, I presume) what you're looking for, I don't think you will find a Japanese verb/word that would satisfy you in the responses from people who are not familiar with the character(s), situations and the style of writing you are using in this project. For example, I just don't understand why it has to be a single verb. Since it seems like you know (and ONLY you know) what you are trying to say, why not just explain/describe whatever it is that you want to convey in Japanese as you would in English rather than looking for that ONE WORD that would say it all?
Since this must be a part of a writing project you're working on, you might want to share a little bit of it so the nice people who actually take the time to post responses can get a better idea of what you're looking for.

 

[timetopartyhard]

The adjective in English is 'out of place' it means "of an inappropriate or misapplied nature" However, in Japanese, no matter how many times I attempt to find a similar adjective there always seems to be a negative connotation attached to it, or I cannot get any clarification. In English, it seems connotation isn't as important as context.

I've given up on finding only 1 word due to the overall inability to find a similar adjective with the connotation I'm looking for. I've tried looking for a way to complete the concept I mentioned above, with no sucess. 帰属意識 I've found the verb I need, but now I'm looking for the opposite of the noun 帰属 it's surprisingly difficult to find antonyms for japanese words. It's opposite would be something along the lines of 'to have a sense of not belonging.'

 

[Elizabeth]

I've given up on finding only 1 word due to the overall inability to find someone who can give the answers I need. I've tried looking for a way to complete the concept I mentioned above, with no sucess. 帰属意識 I've found the verb I need, but now I'm looking for the opposite of the noun 帰属 it's surprisingly difficult to find antonyms for japanese words.

The one thing that would help enormously would be to have a fully translatable sentence in natural English.


By the way, 帰属意識 refers to the sense of identification or belongingness with a particular group, organization, community, company, etc.

 

[orochi]

Let me guess.... This is for a tattoo?
In that case, the kanji you are looking for is 牛乳.

 

[timetopartyhard]

The one thing that would help enormously would be to have a fully translatable sentence in natural English.
By the way, 帰属意識 refers to the sense of identification or belongingness with a particular group, organization, community, company, etc.

Darn. Thank you for the help.

The closest sentence I can give is: （僕には）違う人生があるはずだ。

It means "there should be a different life for me."

It was given to me by epigene, a mod here. However, it is a bit more than I can use.

Other sentences could be "I belong somewhere else." "I feel out of place in this world." or "I shouldn't be here." (all refering to the desire to live another life which, for whatever reason, is not possible.)

 

[timetopartyhard]

Let me guess.... This is for a tattoo?
In that case, the kanji you are looking for is 牛乳.

First, what would it matter?

Second, the kanji you gave me means milk.

Third, would contain things that I would not think suitable to post on a public forum, but I felt that you should know that is not appreciated, appropriate, nor warranted.

I certainly would understand the frustration with the american tattoo trend of using Japanese and Chinese characters as lame tattoos, however, being of Japanese decent, having no tattoos, and not being that incredibly lame, I believe your comment and ruse is misdirected, and as I have learned, 場違い.

 

[Elizabeth]

Darn. Thank you for the help.
The closest sentence I can give is: （僕には）違う人生があるはずだ。
It means "there should be a different life for me."
It was given to me by epigene, a mod here. However, it is a bit more than I can use.
Other sentences could be "I belong somewhere else." "I feel out of place in this world." or "I shouldn't be here." (all refering to the desire to live another life which, for whatever reason, is not possible.)

So what is the space limitation ? This is Japanese, after all. Pretty much anything is trimmable.


What comes to mind as the shortest, most enigmatic, not overly negative verb phrase : 居場所じゃない or simply "I (my heart) don't belong" (to the people/places surrounding or involved with me).

 

[orochi]

Second, the kanji you gave me means milk.

Oops, I meant 巨乳.
Sorry about that!

 

[Tomii515]

Oops, I meant 巨乳.
Sorry about that!

......... xD

hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha
sorry
ive been watching this thread and you definitely changed my mood to happy XD lmao

thank you XD hahaa
you're funny

 

[timetopartyhard]

So what is the space limitation ? This is Japanese, after all. Pretty much anything is trimmable.


What comes to mind as the shortest, most enigmatic, not overly negative verb phrase : 居場所じゃない or simply "I (my heart) don't belong" (to the people/places surrounding or involved with me).

The space limitation is around the phrase you have given actually. What I'm noticing, in the past 2 threads I've created looking for this word or short phrase, is that Japanese doesn't have anything but strict, literal meanings. Would that be correct?

In English there can be a lot of room for interpretation and multiple meanings for 1 word. Is it true that in the Japanese language there isn't? It seems, more than more, that is the case and is probably the root of all my misunderstanding and frustration.