Capital punishment

[Haruspex]

the court with judges who are well educated...well ready to make a judgment on a person when there is absolute evidence of murder..are qualified to decide who is guilty and who is not...

Thats what smells damn bad. Normally one is considered innocent unless his guilt is proven. Basics of modern jurisdiction, its there ever since the times of Rousseau, Locke etc.
How does some geezer have the right to decide who's guilty on his gut feelings?

the difference between me and you is that Jesus says "who slaps you on one cheek give him the other"
we say " who who attacks you attack him back ..never be the starters "
that in my point of view is more just...
you say two wrongs don't make a right..
i say who ever said attacking an aggressor was wrong???
it is just and can be put in the frame of " pre-defense"

Hell, modern jurisdiction is based on on compensation not retaliation. Make up for it.

i do believe in forgiving...but forgiving will occur from me alone not from some one forcing to forgive..i ( if i had a close one murdered) can choose whether to forgive or not...no one should abolish death sentence and choose to forgive against my will.

No one's asking you to forgive anyone, just don't cause the society trouble with your petty vendettas. Now that includes not carrying it out AT ALL.

 

[scorpion da black]

wouldn't you want revenge derfel san in case you were in my shoes??
answer me honestly..
all i am saying is revenge is against religion and the morals of society so i am glad that the court of law will do it for me...

 

[Haruspex]

Obviously I would. But if it would not be possible without involving a whole bunch of people I would NOT do it. And still, I would do it knowing its totally bloody wrong.
Now think it through.
You say that a certain someone deserves death, you and your gang own him up, someone drops dead while fighting. Voila, your actions led to someone's death who die because of you, ergo, you are a murderer, now that means that you deserve death according to your principles. Will you commit suicide?

 

[scorpion da black]

Obviously I would. But if it would not be possible without involving a whole bunch of people I would NOT do it. And still, I would do it knowing its totally bloody wrong.
Now think it through.
You say that a certain someone deserves death, you and your gang own him up, someone drops dead while fighting. Voila, your actions led to someone's death who die because of you, ergo, you are a murderer, now that means that you deserve death according to your principles. Will you commit suicide?

that is why i said a court should do it for me instead

 

[Haruspex]

that is why i said a court should do it for me instead

If they sentence a person to death, they're murderers as well. They deserve death according to certain principles. Its a paradox, but don't make exceptions, if you're faithful deliver punishment to everyone equally.

 

[scorpion da black]

exactly that is why i said i would be willing to go through the same punishment if i was a murderer.
when the court rules that some one is guilty (when definite proof is found) then they are not murderers if they execute the criminal...they are just the deliverers of justice.

 

[Haruspex]

justice

Really? Can you define my justice without any flaw? How do you know what is just, what exactly is just. Does "just" exists? I doubt it. Is there like a "divine constitution" that is used by angels and stuff? You know like Michael & Gabriel barrister office or something?

 

[scorpion da black]

Really? Can you define my justice without any flaw? How do you know what is just, what exactly is just. Does "just" exists? I doubt it. Is there like a "divine constitution" that is used by angels and stuff? You know like Michael & Gabriel barrister office or something?

well justice is obvious in any human made constitution or those assumed divine constitutions..like in the abrahamic religions...

i am really glad that in most believes on earth the justice is that the killer is sent to death

 

[Haruspex]

Now, now. Justice is something nonexistent. Simply, as humans we're too dumb, so we invent unnatural things like justice to define something that is so obviously obvious to everyone: our opinion. Until that changes no one has the right to kill or sentence anyone to death, of course the physical world doesn't give a damn about what goes.

 

[scorpion da black]

Now, now. Justice is something nonexistent. Simply, as humans we're too dumb, so we invent unnatural things like justice to define something that is so obviously obvious to everyone: our opinion. Until that changes no one has the right to kill or sentence anyone to death, of course the physical world doesn't give a damn about what goes.

well then as no one has the right to judge and seek justice the why the hell do we need prisons for?
why the hell do we need any kind of punishment??
if no one can rule a matter as unjust! then who has the right to scentense people to prisons???

if i was to believe in you philosophy that you are stating right now then let me say this:
if no one can decide what is right form wrong then why is thievery wrong?
why is killing wrong it is just the simple trait of nature..the strong apes kill the weak apes steel their food and their wives....
why is any felony wrong?

your philosophy is more twisted then mine bro.

 

[Haruspex]

the physical world doesn't give a damn about what goes.

Who said we have right to do all that? They're wrong all the same, however, there is no better method than imprisonment, but there are better solutions than capital punishment.
Nothing is wrong in life, nor is anything right. We only decide to abide by certain rules for our own gain.
When you do something wrong the Heavy Hammer of Hell doesn't come down crushing your skull does it?

 

[scorpion da black]

another one of your contradictions that hurt my brain!

 

[Haruspex]

Yes, thats good, do you understand now that the creature "human" is a bloody paradox?

 

[scorpion da black]

Yes, thats good, do you understand now that the creature "human" is a bloody paradox?

well in that case i hope that my life pass without having to understand our nature any more...
the greater brain power of the homosapian makes him a sad creature, striving to know more about the great ambiguity of the world around him.

 

[Haruspex]

A sad creature? Maybe. Nonetheless its us, so it can't be helped. I don't like how things are in the world either. Still, if you don't care about it, whats the whole point of living?

 

[centrajapan]

Are there any record or statistics which say that countries which have capitol punnishment to be more safe from murderers and criminals? I know this is a difficult question to answer. It would probably be beter to ask had not USA, Japan or name any country in the world which practice capital punnichment abolished it would the murder rate increase? Thats how I tend to look at it. If by abolishing capital punnishment the murder rate would increase then I would support capital punnishment.

 

[Hezam]

How did you find that? Where did you find that?

Show, don't tell. Explain how you got those conclusions, because i don't see anything connections what-so-ever with the maps and data you have shown. All you have done is destroy your own argument so far. All I see is you posting random maps, stating your opinion without supporting it, and making up conclusions based off of data that supports the opposite. Hardly what I call convincing!

If you have found a connection, show how you've done that.

I based it on what i see here in Aljazeera countries..the crime rate is low..
Maybe it doesn't go on all countries but naturally if someone killed a person ( in purpose to kill not to hurt ) he must be killed,why does someone like that deserve the life ?
As RolandtheHeadless said :

1. General deterrence - deters the general population from committing serious crimes.

2. Specific deterrence - makes damn sure that this particular offender won't do it again.

3. Satisfies society's sense of right and wrong, and need for justice.

4. Satisfies the victim's family that justice has been done, so that they won't take the law into their own hands.

His points are very Convincing.

Can you give me a reason why we should not kill a murderer ? a killer ?

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Voted in the poll, but could not answer #1. Some US states have capital punishment, some (like mine) do not. There is capital punishment for certain federal crimes though.

 

[Emoni]

There really needs to be a "I don't know" option here... I'm still undecided over this issue.

 

[Emoni]

I based it on what i see here in Aljazeera countries..the crime rate is low..
Maybe it doesn't go on all countries but naturally if someone killed a person ( in purpose to kill not to hurt ) he must be killed,why does someone like that deserve the life ?
As RolandtheHeadless said :


His points are very Convincing.

Can you give me a reason why we should not kill a murderer ? a killer ?

*Facepalm* JEZ Hezam!!! :eek2: I'm about to pull out my hair in total frustration. It's like no matter what you just "don't get it." How many others have posted and directly explained how what you've been saying doesn't make sense or even match what you were saying and showing with the maps to support it? We weren't even talking about why or why not to kill a murderer. At the very least look at your previous posts at the claims you are making.

You know... the heck with this. I was going to type this all out for the umpteenth time, but if you "just don't get it" after repeatedly showing how you are contradicting your own presented evidence repeatedly, how your maps destroy your OWN arguments, and how you are blatantly ignoring this, and then just spouting off someone else's opinion while ignoring the evidence you supported that just shot down your own idea... well, nothing I say is going to get you to move beyond this level of thinking.

I seriously worry what they are teaching in schools over there about scientific and logical thought.

 

[Hezam]

@@ !!
Gosh ! i don't know what you are talking about !! Lol
Don't pull out your hair but instead of that please what's the wrong thing in what i said

By the way i sent a wiki link supporting the map !

 

[Emoni]

All I can do now is say that you need to go back to what you originally said, and reread every post. If you don't see anything wrong with it, then nothing I, or anyone here, can say can do any good.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

I haven't read back past the recent posts here. There are also valid social policies and arguments I can see against the death penalty.

I tend to favor the death penalty only for the most serious criminals: serial killers, mass-murderers, repeat pedophiles, and the like. My biggest reservations come from the fallibility of our justice system.

 

[Hezam]

Emoni and the anti death penalty,see this Statistics :
Death Penalty Map in the US :
File:Death penalty statutes in the United States.svg - Wikipedia

And see the crime rates :
List of United States cities by crime rate - Wikipedia

the crimes almost increase in the states where no death penalty..
I am looking for your replies.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Hezam, I don't understand the first map. Which colour shows the states that have the death penalty?

And the second map is unrelated. It shows hate crimes, which are not necessarily capital offences even in capital states.

This article States With No Death Penalty Share Lower Homicide Rates disputes your claim. It seems that there is no correlation between homicide rates and whether or not a state has the death penalty.