Sexuality

[Sarapva]

To give reason why or why not same sex marriage should be legalized is basically a non issue, it's already happened in numerous countries and I have yet to see any true downside to it, besides of course the intolerance of some people.

Yes, I think that after it's legalized in more countries same-sex marriage will be just another of these things that people will wonder what all the opposition was about to begin with. I see no reason not to legalize a union of two people of the same sex. If our population was dwindling and we were in danger of becoming extinct, I can see how maybe opposite-sex marriages would be encouraged more, but in our over-populated world we don't need to worry about propagating the species.

 

[maushan3]

I am not very accepting of the idea of gay people. I might be (sadly) a little discriminant to homosexual people, but it is because I just can't accept it, don't blame me. To each his/her own. I have nothing against them, just not my idea.

They do have an awesome fashion style in the West. In Japan, though, the heterosexuals are the ones with the fashion style.

Mauricio

 

[Kinsao]

I see no reason why homosexual couples shouldn't be permitted a legal union that gives them the same rights as a heterosexual couple who married in the registry office. As for religions, if they have precepts that say homosexual activity is wrong, there is no reason why they should have to perform/endorse same-sex marriages - it is a legal question, not a spiritual one, so each religion keeps its 'rules', and if you disagree with a religion, well then, tough, you shouldn't be wishing to marry within that religion (and why would you, in that case?!). I think legal rights should be able to be the same as in civil heterosexual partnership - although the question of children is more complicated.

 

[Ma Cherie]

I would have to say that the US is kind of slow as far as legalizing gay marriage. People are in favor of civil unions but not full blown marriage. I attend a very liberal college, we were named as one of the most LGBT friendly campuses in the country in the Advocate. Yaaaaay! Okay enough about that.

The strange thing about US culture is that we seemed to be a sex saturated society, but at the same time we get upset just because someone accidently exposed their nipple. Doesn't make much sense, and Americans are still debating about sex education. For those of you who don't know, the current state of sex education in the US is Abstinence-Only. Which has proven to be ineffective and hasn't done much to decrease the rates of STD's and pregnancy. I'm an advocate for comprehenisve sex education. Part of the reason why many Americans are uptight when it comes to issues of sex, may have something to do with us being more religious than Europeans. So that's another factor. The issue of sexual activity among teens is treated like a moral issue and not a public health issue. There's no discussion of contraceptives, if there is it is only in terms of failure rates.

Well enough about that as well, I think we should be a bit more open minded about sexuality.

 

[Sarapva]

(I'd like to add an off-topic note here and apologize for getting irritable in the deleted posts. Thanks for the PM, Doc - I hope everyone will still keep posting on this thread.)

Yes, the U.S. seems to be slower than other western nations in changing things like legalizing gay marriage. But I think it's happening state by state.

 

[Haruspex]

If all homosexual people were like Rob Halford, the musical "scene" today would be a great deal better.
I can digest that kind of style without a problem, but I so hate it when they dress all fluffy and feminine, well they more like half naked on the streets. They just make themselves a bad reputation and thats why some people look at them as a "bad influence" or a potential source of "bad influence".

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Hm, i would say that i am bisexual although i would say that i am more straight than gay/lesbian etc.

One of my best friends is bi and the other is gay, their sexuality is no concern of mine and it does not effect our friendship in anyway. My fiance is 100% straight although i think he thinks it is quite cool that i am bisexual (one of his biggest fantasies is to have a threesome with me and another girl).


I would say i am very accepting of other people's sexual preferances and stuff, i have nothing whatsoever against those who are gay (although that doesn't mean that the thought of a man having sex with another man doesn't gross me out). What goes on between consenting adults behind closed doors is none of my buisness/concern.

I think people are generally quite accepting of gay and bisexual people in my country and area where i live, but think there are still a lot of gender and sex related taboo's in our society- for example, i think a lot of people have a hard time accepting transvestites and cross-dressers.
I think as more and more people come out about these things and they are more openly and honestly discussed, i hope that we will discriminate less and less about people's sexuality and/or gender etc.

 

[Haruspex]

Well I don't know, although im aware that transvestites can't do much about the situation they're in, I still can't accept what they're doing, perhaps the next generation will?
Example, you're just going somewhere and you see some crowd in weird dresses, you say to yourself: "Wha'? Twisted Sister concert? What the hell?"
But when you go closer you don't find Dee Schneider anywhere, you find hairy grown males prancing and rubbing each other where they shouldn't in public.

 

[scorpion da black]

so mars man san that makes me a dinousor old ignorant...since...
i dont like the idea of homosexuality, i dont except it....i will be against ever making it legal in my part of the world ....i dont even except ever having a gay freind...

and i hate when people call that homophobia...what is there to fear in a gay person??
will he drown me using his perfume??

i would better call it anti-homosexuality...or fascism against homos...
i can live with these names.

being gay is against nature, religion, and the original way life is made...

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

being gay is against nature, religion, and the original way life is made...

Actually being gay isn't against nature, yes its aganst our rules of reproduction, but when it comes to nature, gayness is everywhere- i have seen so many gay animals, i kid you not, when i was a kid i had loads of pet chickens and we even had a pair of gay roosters amoungst the hens.

I don't blame you if you find the thought of a man having sex with another man gross, but other than that, why should gay guys concern you? If they keep to their buisness and you keep to your buisness, who's to say you can't co-exist and accept each other?


Even from an evolution point of view, gay guys have a purpose in society- they can be very good, honest, hardworking people that can be a real asset to society and its economies.

Lets make an imaginary scenario- say you live in a run down town in the middle of nowhere, your town has no economy and its community is suffering a great deal from the lack of money going into the town- buisness and life is very hard.
Say a guy comes to town though, and he comes into it with this great idea for buisness, he sets up his company in the town and his buisness does exceptionally well and he employs anyone in the community who wants to work hard and honest- all of a sudden you find yourself working under him, and all of a sudden you have money to put in to your bank account, you can put food on the table for your family, send your kids off to a good school and afford the dream wedding you and your partner has always wanted etc.
What if then, it becomes known around the town that your employer is gay?
Do you put your anti-gay beliefs behind you and accept that this guy is a good man and has done a lot for you and your community, or do you let your beliefs blind you and all of a sudden you change your opinions towards him for the worse because you simply cannot agree with or accept his sexuality and so you look down upon him, believing yourself to be morally better than him because of your sexuality etc?

 

[scorpion da black]

well tokis chan...i cant imagine your scenario, neither would i want to...

i know homosexuality is common in the wild, i have seen that many time on national geographic...
but as you said it is against rules of reproduction...and as everyone knows...
the scientific reason for sex is to make sure the race continues ...humanity in our case cant continue if homosexuality was accpeted...it is not like i am saying that it is a threat to mankind...it is just that nature made two sexes...and that was for a reason...
hermophrodites are not humans.

 

[Haruspex]

so mars man san that makes me a dinousor old ignorant...since...
i dont like the idea of homosexuality, i dont except it....i will be against ever making it legal in my part of the world ....i dont even except ever having a gay freind...
and i hate when people call that homophobia...what is there to fear in a gay person??
will he drown me using his perfume??
i would better call it anti-homosexuality...or fascism against homos...
i can live with these names.
being gay is against nature, religion, and the original way life is made...

What reason do you have to hate them? I don't know of a single gay person who chose to be gay, well except for Jacko... but he's a different case lol.
You say the original way of life and religion. Did you know that certain cultures and religions are quite tolerant with gay people? Can you declare that yes, you and your religion are right, and they are wrong, its absolute, black and white, carved in stone once and for all? Of course you can, but you would be wrong.
If you look down upon gay people because of their sexual orientation and no other, no strong reason, why not look down upon sex as whole? Isn't it an instinct? Sure, I find men having sex disgusting, but when you think about it men and women having sex isn't any less disgusting. Isn't it a simple urge? It is, undoubtedly, now gay people have an urge similar to ours. If ours is natural, theirs isn't less natural either, if theirs is filthy, ours is filthy as well.
Please choose an option.

 

[scorpion da black]

well derfel if i was to have a bad trait in the eyes of the world then i would choose that it be " anti homosexuality "...
i can live with all the names i will be called for hating them....

you are right i can live and not mind them......

but again i choose my believes...and i choose to not accept them!

 

[Haruspex]

well tokis chan...i cant imagine your scenario, neither would i want to...
i know homosexuality is common in the wild, i have seen that many time on national geographic...
but as you said it is against rules of reproduction...and as everyone knows...
the scientific reason for sex is to make sure the race continues ...humanity in our case cant continue if homosexuality was accpeted...it is not like i am saying that it is a threat to mankind...it is just that nature made two sexes...and that was for a reason...
hermophrodites are not humans.

Let me state one thing, Im not here on earth for the sake of reproducing, and being here solely for reproducing must be a rough "mission", Im here to "sightsee" but Im on the other side of the cage too, im being watched and observed as well. I look at gay people and think about them, observe them, I try to follow their way of thinking. Regardless of whether I agree with them or not, they make life a bit more interesting. If everything went according to the rules of reproduction we'd probably be ants or bees because their "method" is the one that is the most effective, but we're not are we?
Homosexuality is not a disease that spreads with sex, so its not a threat to humanity.
You can't imagine the scenario? But you already did, you stated that you wouldn't want to, so that means you imagined it, and you found it humiliating and probably felt a little guilt too for hating your good doer for no reason.
And may I ask why aren't hermaphrodites humans? Well sure if you view them as the offspring of Hermes and Aphrodite they're gods yeah, but in truth, they're humans just like us, its probably a mutation, and to tell you the truth, evolution is nothing different, do you know how many mutations occurred already? Or do we look like mere monkeys? How can you be so sure that the future human won't be hermaphrodite?

Religion might save your soul, a homosexual person can save you from your soul being saved too early, if you treat him normally that is. Judging potential friends so easily is a grave sin, whatever religion might say.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

well tokis chan...i cant imagine your scenario, neither would i want to...
i know homosexuality is common in the wild, i have seen that many time on national geographic...
but as you said it is against rules of reproduction...and as everyone knows...
the scientific reason for sex is to make sure the race continues ...humanity in our case cant continue if homosexuality was accpeted...it is not like i am saying that it is a threat to mankind...it is just that nature made two sexes...and that was for a reason...
hermophrodites are not humans.

The fact that you say you don't want to imagine my scenario means that you are in denial, if your beliefs are based on logical thinking and reason then you should be able to answer to the scenario. I feel sorry for you that you base your opinions in such a narrow-minded and arrogant way (no offence intended, but thats the way anyone who wasn't acting in a narrow-minded way would view what you just said).


So then...Do you believe that the only purpose of our existance as a species is to reproduce? You say hermophrodites are not human beings...Apart from the fact that i find what you just said so wrong in so many ways, are you also saying that gay people are not human beings because they do not want to reproduce with women? Define to me in your opinion/understanding, what makes us human then?



Also i strongly disagree with what you said i.e. "humanity in our case cant continue if homosexuality was accpeted". Gay guys were (and still generally are) completely accepted in japanese society for hundreds upon hundreds of years- famous male samurai and religious monks were not unknown to have sex with each other. Ironically, before japan opened up its doors to the west in 1886, japan had had the longest period of peace ever known to any nation/country in history, a period of peace of a whopping 200years+. During this time homosexuality was completely accepted in japan, does that mean they had no humanity just because they accepted it?

What is this concept of "humanity" you are trying to save from homosexuals?

IMHO, if more people accepted homosexuals i actually think this world would become a lot more civilised and better place to live in.

And to say homesexuality is against religion..Well maybe your take on your religion, whatever that may be. But if you look at the bigger picture and take a step outdoors into the big wide world beyond your fear based beliefs, you would soon release that there are many civilised religions that are accepting of homosexuality- for example buddhism and shintoism to name a few.
Whatever religion you follow, it will never be the ultimate face and leading example of religion, you cannot say that homosexuality is against religion, since there are many religions which are completely accepting of it and do not fear nor hate it.


If you had a brother who one day came out and told you he was gay, would you forsake him because of his homosexuality? Did you learn nothing from the story of "the good samaritan"? Did the storys of Jesus showing care and love to some of the most hated people in his society, like tax payers and prostitutes, mean nothing to you?

 

[MadamePapillon]

well tokis chan...i cant imagine your scenario, neither would i want to...
i know homosexuality is common in the wild, i have seen that many time on national geographic...
but as you said it is against rules of reproduction...and as everyone knows...
the scientific reason for sex is to make sure the race continues ...humanity in our case cant continue if homosexuality was accpeted...it is not like i am saying that it is a threat to mankind...it is just that nature made two sexes...and that was for a reason...
hermophrodites are not humans.

Well, for the sake of not going into another off topic argument I'll just say that in no way are gays threatening the survival of mankind.

I'm of the opinion that, though humans are more advanced, animals are the truest form of nature and we should follow their example in many cases.
There are gay animals yet you don't see them being attacked or killed by members of their own species. Why? Simply because they aren't a threat to the continued survival of the species.

Reproduction is in no danger, I can't understand why people keep using that as an argument when it is so clearly not true.
When was the last time you saw any species dying off because there were to many gays? Never.
Has reproduction ceased in countrys that accept gays? No.
It's just not a valid argument and I wish people would stop using it.

Instead of just brushing it off so quickly as a disease, or a brain malfunction, or trying to find and destroy the 'gay gene' I think we should realize that it has it's place. We not be able to see why this occurs or for what purpose but homosexuality does have it's place in the natural order.

I think we should try more to understand why rather than being so quick to condemn it in the name of fear, misunderstanding and religion.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I totally agree with you MadamePapillon, i agree with Derfel a lot too

 

[ghost writer]

hahaha...funny read. I've never heard anyone describe themselves in that way before. haha love the sense of humor...

 

[mgs4]

My sister is gay, so perhaps I am biased, but I have no problem with someone being gay. Now, do I want to see two guys kissing each other, no. But, two girls, of course I would, but I think that is different all together.
If someone doesn't like gays, or doesn't think it's right, that is their opinion, and obviously they are entitled to it.
BUT, I never will understand gay-bashing. I mean, actually beating up someone who is gay.
That is terrible. Like I said, I wouldn't want to see two guys kiss, but I wouldn't shout slurs against them, and I certainly wouldn't want to beat them up.
Life is complex. As long as someone isn't being hurt in any way, just let people be.

Just my two cents.

 

[scorpion da black]

derfel tokis
i never said hermophrodites like those who have a mutation..i was speaking hypothetically about humans not able to reproduce by being male and female at the same time ...so mating all ways isnt going to work..
and i didnt say it was "my opinion" that our reason to live is to reproduce and insure the continuity of the species...it science's opinion when ever they refer to a specie and its mating habit.

as for my opinion about not accpeting gays, well it is my opinion and you have to respect it as i respect yours....
you cant stereotype me as ignorant or arrogant...
this a point of view....whether i am pro-homosexuality, or not it is my view..
and tokis i told you i hate the word homophobia...fear has nothing to do with shaping my believe.
my believe isnt even based on religion alone...it is instinctal feeling that is explained as rejection to the idea of homosexuality..
it is that feeling every human has of right and wrong...instinctal conciense...same feeling any human will feel against steeling or killing.

i have no problem in being called a bad person about this particular matter for not accpeting homos....
because my view will not change.

plus guys stop refering to me as a fascist ...
i have travelled many times...and i have met a lot of gay guys...and it is not like i carried a crusade against them and killed them or any thing...i minded my own bussines and they minded theirs. at one occasion a gay man tried to ask me out and he said he finds me attractive...i didnt lash out at him, but very politely said " i am sorry, i dont mean to insult you, but i am not that kind of person"

having met gays doesnt mean accepting them........i will always be against the idea...
but it is not like i would be an uncivil person because of it

 

[Sarapva]

....having met gays doesnt mean accepting them........i will always be against the idea...
but it is not like i would be an uncivil person because of it

I think there could be some cultural differences here between the eastern and western parts of the world. I would think that eastern cultures would have a harder time accepting homosexuality than the west because of cultural beliefs about men and women, etc.

posted by Scorpion da black:

and i hate when people call that homophobia...what is there to fear in a gay person??
will he drown me using his perfume??

This proves you're not afraid of gays!

 

[Mars Man]

Well, a lot of responses have been made to your post, scorpion da black san, that had been referring to an earlier post of mine. I'd like to take a look at the line that you referred to:

The belief that sexual orientations other than hetrosexuality are wrong, is a dinosaur from ages of ignorance.

So, as you will notice, it is the 'belief' that is the dinosaur. So, that doesn't mean you, yourself, just that belief. That belief is set in the religious belief-system to which you adhere, and I would make an educated guess and suggest that it is due to that up-bringing which has so hardened you against accepting the reality.

I would like to encourage you, since you have shown willingness to pursure things in the way of tested knowledge, to do further research on the matter of sex. There is one thread which I am still working on (Love, Marriage, and Sex) which gives some bit and pieces of the knowledge that is verified, that might help some. I have found that one cannot get all the right stuff on the internet, and so journals and books seem best--or membership in medical and scientific circles.

Now some loose wording, as is often happening, can be found. After careful thought, I would bet that we would find that by 'rules of reproduction' a person would be talking of 'a specific social group's rules of acceptable sexual orientation and marriage.' Nature, it has very well been shown to be true, has a variety of ways of dealing with the reproductive act. There are plants and animals that reproduce solely by themselves--asexual.

Homosexuality is a matter of nature itself, and this (in that this is a well documented fact) I would urge to you to look into it more, and learn the wide variety that nature is. This doesn't mean that you would have agree to approve of homosexuality, but it would mean that you could not deny that it is as much a part of nature as having sexual state in the first place!

hermophrodites are not humans.

There are more hermaphrodites in the plant kingdom, but there are some in the non-plant kingdom as well--homo sapiens being one of them. The idea you seem to be presenting is very dangerous, and is very mistaken. Every homo sapien is a human, by English definition. And it is is a fact that nature will give us, on those very rare occasions (yes, rare, but nevertheless there) the double sex build--see that thread I mentioned above.

Again, in the final anaysis of all the knowledge which is secure about the make-up of life forms on the earth, to assert that homosexuality is 'wrong' against nature itself, is an old idea which has very solidly been proven incorrect.

 

[scorpion da black]

I think there could be some cultural differences here between the eastern and western parts of the world. I would think that eastern cultures would have a harder time accepting homosexuality than the west because of cultural beliefs about men and women, etc.
This proves you're not afraid of gays!

hihi, you like that one huh ...

and about the east, as you know originally this area of the world was built on religeous believes....all religions have started here...so i think people here have mellenia of increpted DNA of certain believes that are hard to change

 

[scorpion da black]

mars man
i will look up the information you pointed to...just for the love of learning and knowing better.
i just like to point that i have read a lot about sexuality in nature and in human habits.
although i am open to all ideas...i doubt that it is ever going to change my belief

 

[Mars Man]

I think that will be very informative. I will continue there on that thread after some of my work gets easier.

...i doubt that it is ever going to change my belief

Yes. In that your belief is that homosexuality is not a good thing, that may be so, but please do not forget that you have said the following:

being gay is against nature, religion, and the original way life is made...

I do not take this as actually being your belief, but rather simply something said in the heat of the moment. The statement is false in the first predicate (against nature), and true in the second predicate (religion) only when speaking of religious belief-systems or sects thereof which condemn homosexuality, and is false in the third predicate.

Anyway, I will share information and case studies with you too. What means of scientific inquiry to you have? Only the internet is not enough. I'm cheering you on !