zen zen vs zettai

[Dogen Z]

Yesterday, while I was waiting somewhere, I overheard a middle aged Japanese man talking on his keitai. He used the expression, "...zen zen daijoubu desu."

The rest of his conversation was in the formal -masu/-desu form so I believe he was trying to use formal Japanese. If that is so, then his use of "zen zen" should be wrong because "zen zen" should precede a negative form a word, deshou?

However, I have heard such expression very often recently by young people. "Zen zen OK desu." So I was wondering if it's become the more popular usage and whether "zettai" is old-fashioned.

 

[Elizabeth]

Yesterday, while I was waiting somewhere, I overheard a middle aged Japanese man talking on his keitai. He used the expression, "...zen zen daijoubu desu."
The rest of his conversation was in the formal -masu/-desu form so I believe he was trying to use formal Japanese. If that is so, then his use of "zen zen" should be wrong because "zen zen" should precede a negative form a word, deshou?
However, I have heard such expression very often recently by young people. "Zen zen OK desu." So I was wondering if it's become the more popular usage and whether "zettai" is old-fashioned.

Zettai is not old fashioned but it is unrelated and more like "absolutely," "no doubt," "unconditionally" or "under no condition" whereas "zenzen" is completely, fully, entirely ("never" properly in the negative ) etc.

Talked about it more here :
「絶対に」は肯定文で使ってもいい？

 

[undrentide]

Usage of "zenzen" is often discussed among the Japanese, many believe it is a word "to be used only with negative form".
But it is not always, and using "zenzen" without "~nai" is actually not new.
(Those who want to prove it often quote Natsume Souseki (1867~1916) who used "zenzen" in positive sentence in his works.

「全然、大丈夫」で「全然」の使い方は別に間違いではないのでは？ - 「全然、大丈夫」で「全然」の使い方は別に間違いではない... - Yahoo!知恵袋
Sigma-Section/Speak about Speech/030817
サービス終了のお知らせ

So the conclusion is, the most common usage of today is with negative form (zenzen ~nai) but to use in positive form is also acceptable.

 

[Elizabeth]

However, I have heard such expression very often recently by young people. "Zen zen OK desu." So I was wondering if it's become the more popular usage and whether "zettai" is old-fashioned.

I recommend beginners not try using "zen zen" not connected with "chigau" or "nai," especially with adults, or your audience is most likely going to take it for a mistake. That you don't know the standard rule....even though you are trying to be really, really clever.

 

[Dogen Z]

Elizabeth and Undrentide, thank you for your explanations. I thought it was slang usage that was becoming commonplace.

私は日本語新米ではないと思いますが勉強になりました。 ありがとうございました。

 

[Elizabeth]

Elizabeth and Undrentide, thank you for your explanations. I thought it was slang usage that was becoming commonplace.
私は日本語新米ではないと思いますが勉強になりました。 ありがとうございました。

It has recently become fashionable again but most naturally in casual settings between friends. It's interesting to me that you heard it in an apparently more formal conversation.

でも、特に愚かとは思われることはないでしょうね。