Question Working in Tokyo, 1975

I suppose I could have asked this question about 50 years ago, ...

I was 20 or 21 at the time and was working as a computer programmer for a US company that had developed a couple of Computer-Aided Design and Manufacturing (CADAM) systems.
Much of the code I had developed or was working with was useful to our customers - so I was asked to put together a two-week course and, for a fee, would visit a customer site and get them familiar enough with the code that they could add their own extensions to it.
One of those companies was a well-known company with an office in Shinjuku, Tokyo.

I was told that I should keep my age a secret. At the time, I presumed that this was related to my youth and that there might be some discomfort to the teacher being the youngest person in the room. But really, for all I know, there could have been more to it than that. And, of course, it is now so simple to just ask.

I did note that keeping the secret was far easier than I expected - even though I was about 21 and by US standards looked like a teenager, a young teenager. However, in Tokyo, I was at least 6 inches taller than average and working with people who were not that familiar with Caucasians.

At the end of my two weeks working there, they had a dinner where I did tell someone my age. They reacted in some disbelief. When I offered to show them my passport, the office manager put a quick kabosh on the dialog.

So ... What was that all about?

Yeah I'd say it was your youth that was probably the reason for this advice. Back in the 70's--but even today--Japan is a pretty patriarchal, "vertical" society that is largely stratified by age and seniority. Unlike the US, it's common for people to ask for your age specifically so they know where you fit in the hierarchy, because it affects several aspects of your relationship, down to the way one might address you or conjugate their verbs around you. Japanese people don't seem to be very skilled at guessing the age of foreigners (apparently we usually look older to them, go figure), so they probably figured it was best for you not to admit that you were basically a child telling them what to do. Good on you though!

forgive the correction, but I believe it's spelled "kibosh."

nice gaijin said:

Yeah I'd say it was your youth that was probably the reason for this advice. Back in the 70's--but even today--Japan is a pretty patriarchal, "vertical" society that is largely stratified by age and seniority. Unlike the US, it's common for people to ask for your age specifically so they know where you fit in the hierarchy, because it affects several aspects of your relationship, down to the way one might address you or conjugate their verbs around you. Japanese people don't seem to be very skilled at guessing the age of foreigners (apparently we usually look older to them, go figure), so they probably figured it was best for you not to admit that you were basically a child telling them what to do. Good on you though!

forgive the correction, but I believe it's spelled "kibosh."

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Thanks for the reply.
It is, in fact, "kibosh". And you are, of course, "forgiven".
I was not in Japan during Valentine's Day or White Day, but it was recent news coverage of Giri chocolates that got my mind on the culture of the Japanese workplace.

There were a few things that impressed me while working there.

One was the hostess-like inclination of the women workers - I am not sure how to describe it. I am all for equal rights and, at the time had only platonic interests, but their servient presentation had been developed into a high skill that I could not help but admire. They were as good at their presentation as I was at my software skills. As for my presentation, I was about as nerdy as they come.

Another was the instruction. All the instruction I provided was done through an interpreter. At one point, I really wanted some feedback on whether I was talking over their heads or reaching them on target. So I wrote out some code on the board and asked for a volunteer to come up and explain it. Problem one: getting the interpreter to relay the request. He refused. I explained the purpose to him - that I wanted to know if the class understood the points I was making. He turned to the group (there were about 8 of us in the room). The faces on the others was about as deadpan as you can get. He turned back to me and said that he thought they were getting it: Really, I was suppose to believe that he saw some glimmer of understanding in their faces that I had missed?

I said directly, I need to know this - so he sacrificed himself for the group and worked through the code himself - I called attention to a couple of points and asked for his comments. It was a cooperative effort between him and myself, all over in a minute or so, he did well, and whatever he feared didn't happen . When it was done, he was smiling and relaxed.

I suppose that's another question: What had he been afraid of? I've always presumed this was some sort of "losing face" think. But I am only guessing.

The third item was the keyboards. In one part of the office area, they had the Japanese typewriter. The hiragana/katakana keys in the near zone and the other thousands of keys spread out across a several square foot area. I didn't actually type anything on it, but I move the stylus around just short of typing. Later they had me attempt to enter a piping diagram into the CADCAM system which required keyboard work - American-style keyboard work. I am not that fast a typist, but I literally drew a crowd. The manager immediately invited everyone over and as much of the office population as would fit, about 20 people, crowded around to watch me type.

It was clearly a lasting experience. I remember a lot more about that work than any other 2-week work period before 2000.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, @.Scott

I suppose the old OL (Office Lady) service jobs hearkened back to the tea ceremony, where the goal was to provide that perfect "omotenashi" level of service, making everyone (with the noted exception of the server themself) feel like a lord. I can understand why this seemed great to be on the receiving end, but unfortunately it became a sexist trope that created a sense of privilege and self-importance of men in the office, particularly when addressing their female colleagues.

In your classroom story, I think this is not an uncommon experience amongst teachers in Japan. Calling on students and making them stand in front of the group can be a special form of torture for Japanese people: if they fail the task they've embarrassed themselves in front of everyone, and if they succeed they're showing off and seen as showing off or standing above the others... and in Japan, the nail that sticks up is begging for a hammer. It's a lose-lose scenario. Your interpreter sacrificed himself by saving the others from this embarrassment.

nice gaijin said:

I suppose the old OL (Office Lady) service jobs hearkened back to the tea ceremony, where the goal was to provide that perfect "omotenashi" level of service, making everyone (with the noted exception of the server themself) feel like a lord. I can understand why this seemed great to be on the receiving end, but unfortunately it became a sexist trope that created a sense of privilege and self-importance of men in the office, particularly when addressing their female colleagues.

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Thanks for the word "omotenashi". I looked up the definition and that's it. ... and I was served tea many times.

It is clearly an art. And in the same way that I admire an accomplished violin player or an accomplished actor, I am struck by skilled omotenashi - quite aside from my own pleasure in experiencing the art, I am struck by the personal efforts of the artist in finding a way to serve the world.

That said, I wonder how well-suited omotenshi, violin, or actor performances are in an engineering workplace. I also noted that in this office, all of those highly skilled in omotenashi were women and I wonder how amenable the art would be to men. Or perhaps it could be picked up by men, but only in the form of being hosts to women.

I was pro "womens' lib" at the time (as I am now), but there was nothing I could do to in that setting. No one expressed any displeasure with the norms - there wasn't even anyone to sympathize with - and if there had been, there would have been too much of a language barrier. It certainly wasn't lost on me that having so many "Office Ladies" (there were a few on the floor where I worked) likely represented a gender-based difference in career opportunities. Before leaving for Japan, I expected I would encounter more of that in Japan than I saw in the US at the time, and I did.

There was one woman there who I believe was an engineer, and she seemed very capable. She was in my class, but spoke no English at all. She seemed to garner as much respect, perhaps more, than most of the male engineers there. But certainly it was hard for me to tell. At lunch time, there were about six engineers, all young male, that frequently joined me - there's no shortage on lunch options in Shinjuku.

.Scott said:

I was told that I should keep my age a secret. At the time, I presumed that this was related to my youth and that there might be some discomfort to the teacher being the youngest person in the room. But really, for all I know, there could have been more to it than that. And, of course, it is now so simple to just ask.

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I agree with nice gaijin, it was probably to save face. You were clearly the subject matter expert yet much junior to the instructor and maybe everybody else.

Sounds like you had a great, memorable experience. My first business trip to Japan is probably still my #1 business trip and one of my top travel experiences. My company was trying to introduce their client-server systems to Japan in the 1990s. It was a sales trip but I was an engineer only brought along because I could barely speak some Japanese but far more than anybody else in my company. So my only task was to help with communication between executives. We experienced a lot of omotenashi from office ladies to hostess clubs. I was 24 at the time. It happened to be the week the crown prince was getting married so there was a holiday in the middle of the week. Then to top it off because the company had some business in Hawaii for hotel software, I got to stop in Hawaii on the way back. It happened to coincide with King Kamehameha Day where we had another day off during the few days Hawaii. I think that was literally my first business trip too.

@.Scott you are right, the concepts of service in Japan are the roots of their well-deserved reputation for excellent customer care. On the plus side, it can create an excellent customer experience, but it also serves to put up a distinct edifice between you and the server that can be somewhat cold and robotic, as there is a definite set phrase or action that is correct and anticipated in a given situation; the human element is sort of wrung out of the equation.

The men in service industries and customer relations who have taken note of these principles deliver excellent service. I've seen it firsthand from both sides of the equation, and it can have a great effect on the customer's experience. Many times it amounts to emotional labor, and I've seen a heroic amount of patience transform an angry customer into a humbled, apologetic one. Of course, I've also seen jerks who were impervious to even the most well-mannered and patient service worker.

The times are changing, but even into more recent decades there were plenty of settings where tea service fell on the shoulders of women who were not directly hired for that purpose, it just became an expectation from older or more "traditional" men, but it had metastasized into an ingrained sexist trope that bled into all kinds of inappropriate and unprofessional attitudes towards women in the workplace (like expecting them to wear heels for the viewing pleasure of their male coworkers). Essentially, when you expect someone to serve you simply because of their gender, it makes it harder to take them seriously as colleagues. I find that kind of attitude harmful to everyone involved, including the business itself.

Please don't take this as admonishment, I know what it's like to observe cultural practices with mixed feelings, and it's rarely proper to openly criticize your hosts. As you put it, there wasn't even anyone to sympathize with; it was just the way things were.

mdchachi said:

I agree with nice gaijin, it was probably to save face. You were clearly the subject matter expert yet much junior to the instructor and maybe everybody else.

Sounds like you had a great, memorable experience. My first business trip to Japan is probably still my #1 business trip and one of my top travel experiences. My company was trying to introduce their client-server systems to Japan in the 1990s. It was a sales trip but I was an engineer only brought along because I could barely speak some Japanese but far more than anybody else in my company. So my only task was to help with communication between executives. We experienced a lot of omotenashi from office ladies to hostess clubs. I was 24 at the time. It happened to be the week the crown prince was getting married so there was a holiday in the middle of the week. Then to top it off because the company had some business in Hawaii for hotel software, I got to stop in Hawaii on the way back. It happened to coincide with King Kamehameha Day where we had another day off during the few days Hawaii. I think that was literally my first business trip too.

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I was both the subject matter expert and the instructor. My interpreter was a young, energetic and very friendly engineer.

I spoke no Japanese - though, by the end of my 3 weeks there, I had managed to put several sentences together. I picked up 10 or 12 katakana characters a day, and on the fourth day I suddenly realized I could read all those "cigarette" signs I was seeing. And, of course, don't say "yes" if you mean "hi" - especially if you're hungry and pointing to a restaurant window model of the meal you've selected.

On my visit, they were observing the 30th anniversary of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.

I also stopped off in Hawaii on the way back. I stayed there for a week - and have returned to Hawaii 3 more times since then.