'Where do you...'

easonko · 19 Jan 2009

So I'm trying to give my best to create a sentence based on what I've learnt. But I stuck at trying to say 'where do you want to eat', anyone can help?

From what I knew,

want to eat = tabetai
where = doko...

So how do I join them to say 'where do you want to eat'?

thank you very much

Red5 · 19 Jan 2009

as I know you can say ...

どこへ食べたいですか。
dokoe tabetai desuka ..

and I hope from members to rectify to me if I'm wrong //

nekojita · 19 Jan 2009

To talk about a location where an action occurs, you can use で (de)
e.g.
doko de tabetai?

Although this would be very casual (fine for chatting with friends).

doko de tabemashou ka?
doko de aimashou ka?
etc, would be fine for a polite "where do you want to eat?" "where do you want to meet?", and so on, although often they'll be translated more literally as "where shall we eat?" "where shall we meet?".

へ is more for direction (much like 'ni'). When talking about going somewhere to eat, you'll often hear 'tabe ni iku' (tabe ni ikitai, tabe ni ikimashou?). Then that would be
doko ni tabe ni ikitai? (where do you want to go to eat).

In this case, doko e(へ) tabe ni ikitai would probably also be fine.

Glenn · 20 Jan 2009

Point: as I learned recently (as in a couple of days ago) you can't use 食べる without an object. It can be implied, but it does have to be understood. That is, you can't say どこで食べましょうか unless you have already specified what it is you're going to be eating. You can, however, say どこで食事しましょうか without needing an object. See Re:「食べる」と「食事」 and the posts that follow it.

osamu_ys · 20 Jan 2009

Hi, Glenn. So long to see you. I'm EX-wakaP Remember me?

That is, you can't say どこで食べましょうか unless you have already specified what it is you're going to be eating.

Sometimes "Where do you want to eat ?" implies "What do you want to eat".
So, if you don't specified what is you're going to be eating, you can say どこで食べましょうか .

Glenn · 20 Jan 2009

Oh, hi! It's been a while, indeed. I posted on your wall thing, too, without realizing who you were.

So... another wrinkle gets thrown into the equation here, eh? 混乱してくるぜ～。

Ashikaga · 20 Jan 2009

osamu_ys said:
Hi, Glenn. So long to see you. I'm EX-wakaP Remember me?
Sometimes "Where do you want to eat ?" implies "What do you want to eat".
So, if you don't specified what is you're going to be eating, you can say どこで食べましょうか .

I'd like to preface this with a disclaimer. I am not an expert when it comes to Japanese grammar. So, even if I am wrong, please don't ever stop loving me. Thank you.

In most cases, when we say どこで食べましょうか, we have already established WHAT we are eating. Not the specific food item but what type of meal i.e. lunch/dinner, etc. What we're really saying is どこで昼ご飯/夕ご飯を食べましょうか. It is most likely that we have been on the subject of lunch/dinner already. If not, I usually would not omit 昼ご飯/夕ご飯 in that sentence. One should consider the time of the day when someone says something like 「もう食べた？」or「どこで食べる？」. If it's anywhere close to noon, s/he is talking about lunch while if it's 7 or 8pm, dinner. I do not think the Japanese verb 食べる covers the same meaning as the English verb EAT, which could mean "to have a meal". So, as Glenn has said in his post, when we say どこで食べましょうか, while we may know what the speaker is talking about, it is not a complete sentence and a student of Japanese should be aware that there is an object being omitted.

I don't know... Does that make sense? lol

osamu_ys · 20 Jan 2009

ASHIKAGA said:
In most cases, when we say どこで食べましょうか, we have already established WHAT we are eating.

ASHIKAGAさんは日本の方だと思いますが，この点は同意しかねます。
（I believe that @Ashikaga san is Japanese, but I don't agree with your statement above.）
In my view, どこで食べたいか(Where do you want to eat?)と何を食べたいか(What do you want to eat?) have similar meaning. Because, what we can eat depends on where we eat. So, Asking where to eat nearly equal what to eat, I think.
If my opinion is beside the point, please point that and ignore me.

Amigo · 20 Jan 2009

Reading this thread it came to my mind the following:

When I was working in a Japanese Company here in my country, I used to heard my boss (Japanese) in the mid-time saying: 食事行って来ます。
And certain day he said: 明日、皆さんは晩御飯を食べに行きませんか。

undrentide · 20 Jan 2009

osamu_ys said:
ASHIKAGAさんは日本の方だと思いますが，この点は同意しかねます。
（I believe that

@Ashikaga san is Japanese, but I don't agree with your statement above.）
In my view, どこで食べたいか(Where do you want to eat?)と何を食べたいか(What do you want to eat?) have similar meaning. Because, what we can eat depends on where we eat. So, Asking where to eat nearly equal what to eat, I think.
If my opinion is beside the point, please point that and ignore me.

I agree with @Ashikaga san here.

I do not think 食べる stands alone, when we say どこで食べましょうか？ we always have some pretext that "we are going to have lunch now... so where shall we eat?". Even we do not mention it, object of the verb 食べる is on our mind first. In other words, if someone says abruptly in conversation どこで食べましょうか？ then I cannot help saying なにを？

Same goes with なにを食べましょうか？
It is a typical sentence one might say when one is talking about (or thinking about) a certain meal. Like （夕食は）なにを食べましょうか？

...but it could be just me.

Toritoribe · 21 Jan 2009

I agree with Glenn/TAKASUGI-ASHIKAGA-undrentide(敬称略) line, too. When I saw the sentence "doko de tabemashou ka?" in this thread, the first thing that came to my mind was my co-worker who's talking to me with a lunchbox.

How about なんか食べたいものある？ as a casual way of saying "where do you want to eat?"

Glenn · 21 Jan 2009

Maybe it's a 長崎 thing? At any rate, I'm glad I can go along with what I learned the other day and not have to worry about exceptions. That certainly makes things easier on me.

osamu_ys · 21 Jan 2009

No, it's a 長崎 thing. Maybe it's my thing...

Anyway, unless we have already specified what it is we're going to be eating,
we often say "どこで食べようか？" It's a practical thing.

本日の同僚との会話（昼ご飯時）
相手「どこいきましょ？」
私「どこがええ？」
相手「カレーいきましょか」
私「そうしょうか」

何人かの英語に堪能な方々，英訳してみてください。

Toritoribe · 22 Jan 2009

皆さんが繰り返し指摘されてるのは、会話している二人に「昼ご飯に行く」という共通認識があるからこそそれは省略されうる、ということなのでは？
つまり、昼ご飯時に同僚からどこに行くか訊かれればそれは普通「昼ご飯に行く」ということであり、わざわざ「お昼ご飯どこに食べに行きましょうか？」と言う必要はないと。例えば午前10時に同じ文章で「どこ行きます？」と訊かれたら、それが仕事内容に応じて営業先等を自然と意味するように。
逆に言うと、そういう文脈なしに唐突には「どこに行きます？/どこで食べます？」は使えない(少なくとも使われにくい)のでは？

Glenn · 22 Jan 2009

それに今問題となっているのは「食べる」という動詞と対象の言葉を受けるかどうかということです。「行く」に別に行き先を言わなくてもいいのではないでしょうか。ですが正午頃「どこで食べよう」と訊かれても「何を」という要素が欠けているかというのはこの流れの趣旨ですよね。昼ご飯時に「どこで食べよう」と言うと、答えになり得る言葉は餃子の王将とか天下一品とかなか卯とかいう言葉じゃないですよね？答えになり得る言葉は「屋上」や「芝生」や「休憩室」などですよね？今まで読んできた事によるとこうなると思いますが。

Toritoribe · 22 Jan 2009

いえ、そうではなく、お昼頃で、普段一緒に食べに行っている同僚が例えば「今日はどこで食べます？」と言うことはできる、ということです。もちろん「今日はお昼どこで食べます？」の省略形として。そしてその場合の答えは普通「牛丼」ではなく「吉野家」、あるいは僕の弁当の例のように「屋上」になると。(「牛丼」と答える場合は近所に牛丼屋が一軒しかないとか、いつも決まった牛丼屋に行っているというような場合でしょう。)
だから余計OPさんの例文の一般的な日本語訳として「どこで食べます？」は使われにくい。恐らく日本語の「どこで」のほうが、例文中の英語の"where" よりも強く具体的な店名や地名を要求してしまう、ということなんだろうと思いますが。

Glenn · 22 Jan 2009

段々解ってきているような気がします。Toritoribeさんの上記の説明だと、まだ話し手に知られている対象が必要としていますね。だから先日学んだことは正しいというわけで、「食べる」という動詞を使う時には注意が必要だということですね（学習者にとっては）。ありがとうございます。

'Where do you...'

easonko

後輩

Red5

後輩

nekojita

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

osamu_ys

おっしー

Glenn

一切皆苦

Ashikaga

もちもちした食感

osamu_ys

おっしー

Amigo

先輩

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Glenn

一切皆苦

osamu_ys

おっしー

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Glenn

一切皆苦

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Glenn

一切皆苦

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