Whats the difference?

Damicci · 8 Nov 2006

Between
窶氾｡窶堋ｦ窶堙
窶堙??堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堋ｩ窶冦窶堙ｧ窶堙遺?堋｢
ﾅ?y窶堋ｵ窶堋｢ﾅｽ窶凪?堙ｰ窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙梗/COLOR]窶堋｢窶堋｢窶堙??堋ｷ窶堙
窶氾ｻﾂ習窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙ｰﾂ〜ﾂ〜ﾂﾂ（窶堋｢窶堋｢窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙ｰﾂ考窶堋ｦ窶堙遺?堋｢ﾂ）
窶斗窶堙坂?堙遺?堙ｱ窶堙??堙遺?堋ｭ窶｢ﾂｪ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｷ窶堋ｪﾂ、ﾅｽO窶敕披?堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙俄?堙??堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堋｢窶氾｡窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙ｰﾂ考窶堋ｦ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。
ﾅｽﾃ?窶堙債、ﾂ催??ｹﾃ淒ｽﾂｿ窶禿｢窶堋ｪ窶堋?窶堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ窶堋ｻ窶堙ｪ窶堙??堋｢窶堋｢窶｢ﾃ冷?ｹﾂｭ窶堋ｵ窶堙遺?堋｢ﾅ?'窶堋ｶ窶堋ｪ窶堋?窶堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。
窶堋ｾ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧﾂ、ﾅｽﾂｿ窶禿｢窶堙ｰﾂ催ｬ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堋ｪ窶堋｢窶堋｢窶堙?ｽv窶堙≫?堋ｽﾂ。

nhk9 · 8 Nov 2006

ﾅｽO窶敕披?堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙俄?堙??堋ｵ窶堙Ъ/B]窶堋｢窶堋｢窶氾｡窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙ｰﾂ考窶堋ｦ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。

I am not sure 100% what you mean by that, but I am guessing that you want an example for the third one?

窶氾ｻﾂ習窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙ｰ窶添窶堙ｪ窶堙遺?堋｢窶堙??堙仰。ﾂ窶堙≫?堙??堋｢窶堋､窶堙娯?堋ｪ窶堋?窶堙ｨ窶堋ｦ窶堙ｩ窶堋ｩ窶堙?窶冦窶堙ｪ窶堙遺?堋｢窶堙?ｽv窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。

JimmySeal · 8 Nov 2006

窶堙??堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堋ｩ窶冦窶堙ｧ窶堙遺?堋｢
ﾅ?y窶堋ｵ窶堋｢ﾅｽ窶凪?堙ｰ窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙坂?堋｢窶堋｢窶堙??堋ｷ窶堙
窶氾ｻﾂ習窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙ｰ

The second one nominalizes the verb and treats it as the topic (here the subject) of the sentence.
The third one nominalizes the verb and treats it as the object of the sentence.
The first one is harder to explain, but generally corresponds to times when you would use "know," "see," "understand," etc. with a question word in English:
I don't know what to do.
I don't understand where to go.
Do you know whom I'm talking about?

I think that in the first example sentence, the 窶堙 isn't a nominalizer (the 窶堋ｩ can nominalize the phrase on its own) but actually explanatory/request for explanation 窶堙? I think that 窶堙??堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堋ｩ窶冦窶堙ｧ窶堙遺?堋｢ would still be grammatically correct, but a bit awkward.

Damicci · 9 Nov 2006

あ！
ちょっと分かります。
三番にとして、動詞は他の動詞に何かをしますなら、「のを」使うべきだろう。
例えば：
「家に帰った時、晩ご飯を注文（オーダ）するのを忘れないで下さい。」
この場合には『晩ご飯を注文する』が忘れない事になります。
『When you get home, don't forget to order dinner please.』
その文がいいかな。

Elizabeth · 13 Nov 2006

I think that 窶堙??堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堋ｩ窶冦窶堙ｧ窶堙遺?堋｢ would still be grammatically correct, but a bit awkward.

Really ? Both sound equally fine to me. I honestly don't see that there is much difference with the 窶堙 included or not.

Elizabeth · 13 Nov 2006

窶斗窶堙坂?堙遺?堙ｱ窶堙??堙遺?堋ｭ窶｢ﾂｪ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｷ窶堋ｪﾂ、ﾅｽO窶敕披?堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙俄?堙??堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堋｢窶氾｡窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙ｰﾂ考窶堋ｦ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。

窶堋ｽ窶堋ｾ窶堙娯?堋ｨ窶冦窶堙ｧ窶堋ｹ窶堙??堋ｷ窶堋ｪ

ﾂ湘｣窶堙娯?氾｡窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙才?凪?督｡窶堙坂?堙ｭ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｩ窶堋ｯ窶堙ｪ窶堙?、窶堙??堙??堙?窶｢sﾅｽﾂｩ窶漏窶堙遺?｢ﾂｶﾂ湘坂?堙??堋ｷ窶堙仰。
ﾂ「窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙俄?堙??堋ｵ窶堙?」窶堙??堋｢窶堋､窶｢\ﾅ陳ｻ窶堙坂?堙遺?堋｢窶堙?ｽv窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。ﾂ
ﾂ「窶啌窶敕披?堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙娯?氾??堋｢窶氾｡窶｢ﾂｶ窶堋ｪﾂ（窶堙ｰﾂ）ﾂ考窶堋ｦ窶堙ｧ窶堙ｪ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ」窶堙懌?堋ｽ窶堙債「窶啌窶敕披?堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙娯?氾??堋｢窶氾｡窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙ｰﾂ考窶堋ｦ窶堙や?堋ｫ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ」窶堙?陳ｾ窶堋ｦ窶堙芝ｽﾂｩ窶漏窶堙??堋ｷﾂ。ﾂ

ﾂ「窶ｰﾃ??堙俄?ｹA窶堙≫?堋ｽﾅｽﾅｾﾂ、窶敕凪?堋ｲ窶敕鯛?堙ｰ窶卍坂?｢ﾂｶﾂ（ﾆ棚ﾂーﾆ胆ﾂ）窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙ｰ窶添窶堙ｪ窶堙遺?堋｢窶堙??ｰﾂｺ窶堋ｳ窶堋｢ﾂ。ﾂ」

窶堋ｱ窶堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙坂?堋｢窶堋｢窶氾｡窶｢ﾂｶ窶堋ｾ窶堙?ｽv窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷ窶堋ｪﾂ、ﾂ「窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩﾂ」窶堙??堋｢窶堋､窶慊ｯ窶堋ｶ窶慊ｮﾅｽﾅ停?堙ｰﾅｽg窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽ窶堙仰。

Damicci · 13 Nov 2006

窶堙｢窶堙≫?堙鞘?堙ｨﾂ、窶斗窶堙俄?堙坂?懌?凪?漏窶堙遺?愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ津ｪ窶堋ｪ窶督ｳ窶板昶?堙?ｽv窶堙≫?堙??堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。ﾂ窶堋ｻ窶堙個「窶啌窶敕披?堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙娯?堋｢窶堋｢ﾂ〜ﾂ〜ﾂ」窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙ｰ窶愿??堙ｱ窶堙??堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾅ津｣ﾂ、ﾂ「ﾂ〜窶堋ｱ窶堙??堋ｪ窶堙??堋ｫ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ」窶堙ｰﾅｽg窶堋､窶堙娯?堙吮?堋､窶堋ｪ窶氾??堋ｩ窶堙≫?堋ｽ窶堋ｾ窶堙ｫ窶堋､窶堙?ｽv窶堙≫?堋ｽﾂ。
窶堋ｶ窶堙｡窶堋ｱ窶堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙??堋､窶堙??堋ｷ窶堋ｩﾂ？
ﾂ『ﾅｽﾅｾﾂ々ﾂ寝窶堙ｩﾅｽﾅｾﾂ、窶斗窶堙坂?倪?ｹ窶堙ｰ窶｢ﾃや?堋ｶ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙ｰ窶添窶堙ｪ窶堙懌?堋ｷ窶堙娯?堙?、窶披?壺?愿ｺ窶｢窶版ｽﾃ冷?堙ｰﾋ?ｸ窶堋ｫ窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。ﾂ』

undrentide · 13 Nov 2006

Damicci said:
窶堙｢窶堙≫?堙鞘?堙ｨﾂ、窶斗窶堙俄?堙坂?懌?凪?漏窶堙遺?愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ津ｪ窶堋ｪ窶督ｳ窶板昶?堙?ｽv窶堙≫?堙??堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。ﾂ窶堋ｻ窶堙個「窶啌窶敕披?堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙娯?堋｢窶堋｢ﾂ〜ﾂ〜ﾂ」窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙ｰ窶愿??堙ｱ窶堙??堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾅ津｣ﾂ、ﾂ「ﾂ〜窶堋ｱ窶堙??堋ｪ窶堙??堋ｫ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ」窶堙ｰﾅｽg窶堋､窶堙娯?堙吮?堋､窶堋ｪ窶氾??堋ｩ窶堙≫?堋ｽ窶堋ｾ窶堙ｫ窶堋､窶堙?ｽv窶堙≫?堋ｽﾂ。
窶堋ｶ窶堙｡窶堋ｱ窶堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙??堋､窶堙??堋ｷ窶堋ｩﾂ？
ﾂ『ﾅｽﾅｾﾂ々ﾂ寝窶堙ｩﾅｽﾅｾﾂ、窶斗窶堙坂?倪?ｹ窶堙ｰ窶｢ﾃや?堋ｶ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙ｰ窶添窶堙ｪ窶堙懌?堋ｷ窶堙娯?堙?、窶披?壺?愿ｺ窶｢窶版ｽﾃ冷?堙ｰﾋ?ｸ窶堋ｫ窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。ﾂ』

I think your sentence is good, Camicci san.
If anything, 窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ・窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽ is used only at the end of the sentence, otherwise dictionary form should be used.

e.g.
窶堋ｻ窶堙個「窶啌窶敕披?堙娯?｢ﾂｪ窶堙娯?堋｢窶堋｢ﾂ〜ﾂ〜ﾂ」窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙ｰ窶愿??堙ｱ窶堋ｾﾅ津｣ﾂ、ﾂ「ﾂ〜窶堋ｱ窶堙??堋ｪ窶堙??堋ｫ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ」窶堙ｰﾅｽg窶堋､窶｢ﾃｻ窶堋ｪ窶氾??堋ｩ窶堙≫?堋ｽ窶堋ｾ窶堙ｫ窶堋､窶堙?ｽv窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。
ﾅｽﾅｾﾂ々ﾂ寝窶堙ｩﾅｽﾅｾﾂ、窶斗窶堙坂?倪?ｹ窶堙ｰ窶｢ﾃや?堋ｶ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙ｰ窶添窶堙ｪ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙?、窶披?壺?愿ｺ窶｢窶版ｽﾃ冷?堙ｰﾋ?ｸ窶堋ｫ窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。

Damicci · 13 Nov 2006

その簡単なポイントを忘れた。＠＿＠Undrentideさん、ありがとうございました。

Elizabeth · 13 Nov 2006

Damicci said:
窶堋ｻ窶堙固?ﾃ遺?儕窶堙鞍竹ﾆ辰ﾆ停?愴暖窶堙ｰ窶添窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂﾂ≫?板＿ﾂ≫?廼ndrentide窶堋ｳ窶堙ｱﾂ、窶堋?窶堙ｨ窶堋ｪ窶堙??堋､窶堋ｲ窶堋ｴ窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。

窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ津ｪ窶堙娯?｢ﾂｶ窶堙娯?吮??窶堙俄?堙債、ﾂ「窶堙??堋ｷﾂ、窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ」窶堋ｪﾂ出窶堙??堋ｭ窶堙ｩ窶堙?、窶ｰﾃｼ窶堙懌?堙≫?堋ｽﾂ（ﾆ稚ﾆ辿ﾂーﾆ筑ﾆ停?ｹ)
ﾅ陳ｾ窶堋｢窶｢ﾃｻ窶堙俄?堋ｫ窶堋ｱ窶堋ｦ窶堙懌?堋ｷ. ﾅ?ﾃ藩?｡窶堋｢窶堙??堙坂?堋?窶堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堋ｪﾂ、ﾅ督ｾﾅ禿ｧ窶堋ｷ窶堋ｬ窶堙??愿ｺﾂ湘ｭ窶廬窶堙嫁ｽg窶堋､窶堋ｱ窶堙??堙坂?堙遺?堋｢窶堙?ｽv窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。

Damicci · 14 Nov 2006

もう知りますが、最近僕は友達だけと話していますので、日常語の日本語をよく使いました。日常語から丁寧語まで変わるのが難しいと思っています。僕の問題のに難しいでし。も、『忘れた』はなんとなく丁寧語と思っていました。

Elizabeth · 14 Nov 2006

窶堙?窶堋､窶冦窶堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｷ窶堋ｪﾂ、

窶堋ｻ窶堋､窶堙??堋ｷ窶堙仰。ﾂ債｡窶忸窶堙債、ﾋ彙窶堙娯?堙坂?堋ｶ窶堙溪?堙可「窶堙?窶堋､窶冦窶堙≫?堙??堋｢窶堙ｩ窶堋ｩ窶堙?窶堋ｵ窶堙ｪ窶堙遺?堋｢窶堋ｯ窶堙?」窶堙ｰﾅｽﾂ昶?堙≫?堙??堋ｫ窶堋ｽ窶堙吮?堋､窶堋ｪ窶堋｢窶堋｢窶堙?ｽv窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。
ﾅ停┐窶堋｢窶堙遺?凖ｹﾂ青ｳ窶堙??堋ｷ窶堙仰。

ﾂ催??ｹﾃ溪?斗窶堙坂?認窶傳窶堋ｾ窶堋ｯ窶堙?彙窶堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷ窶堙娯?堙?、窶愿ｺﾂ湘ｭﾅ津ｪ窶堙娯?愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ津ｪ窶堙ｰ窶堙ｦ窶堋ｭﾅｽg窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ窶愿ｺﾂ湘ｭﾅ津ｪ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧ窶卩｡窶扣ﾅ津ｪ窶堙懌?堙??｢ﾃ鞘?堙ｭ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堋ｪ窶愿ｯ窶堋ｵ窶堋｢窶堙?ｽv窶堙≫?堙??堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。ﾂ窶斗窶堙娯?禿｢窶佚ｨ窶堙娯?堙俄?愿ｯ窶堋ｵ窶堋｢窶堙??堋ｵﾂ。ﾂ窶堙?ﾂ、ﾂ『窶添窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽﾂ』窶堙坂?堙遺?堙ｱ窶堙??堙遺?堋ｭ窶卩｡窶扣ﾅ津ｪ窶堙?ｽv窶堙≫?堙??堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。

ﾂ湘｣窶堙娯?氾｡窶｢ﾂｶ窶堙債「窶添窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽﾂ、窶添窶堙ｪ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ」窶堋ｾ窶堋ｯ窶堙ｦ窶堙ｨﾂ「窶添窶堙ｪ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堙懌?堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽ (I completely forgot, Unfortunately I forgot, I'm really sorryﾂ」窶堙娯?｢ﾃｻ窶堋ｪﾅｽﾂｩ窶漏窶堙??堋ｷﾂ。
窶堋ｿ窶堙･窶堙≫?堙?津｣窶ｰﾃｷ窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾅ?'窶堋ｶ窶堋ｪ窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙可、ﾂ「窶添窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽﾂ」窶堋ｪ窶堙遺?堙ｱ窶堙??堙遺?堋ｭﾂ「窶堙娯?堙ｱ窶堙鯛?堙ｨ , Oh well I just forgotﾂ」窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾅ?'窶堋ｶ窶堙ｰﾅｽﾃｳ窶堋ｯ窶堙懌?堋ｷ窶堙仰。
ﾂ

Damicci · 14 Nov 2006

そうですか。分かりました。今でも僕には文法がよく分かりません。それで日本語を練習する時には大体文法しかを考えてしまいませんでした。丁寧語か日常語にとして僕はなんとを書きましただけ。

I understand. I still do not understand grammar very well, and because of that when I am practicing Japanese, I usually am thinking of nothing but grammar.
So as far as Polite and Daily, I usually just write whatever.

Thank you for the reminder. I will try to remember politeness levels also.

Elizabeth · 15 Nov 2006

Damicci said:
窶堋ｻ窶堋､窶堙??堋ｷ窶堋ｩﾂ。ﾂ窶｢ﾂｪ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂﾂ債｡窶堙??堙?窶斗窶堙俄?堙坂?｢ﾂｶ窶邸窶堋ｪ窶堙ｦ窶堋ｭ窶｢ﾂｪ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱﾂ。窶堋ｻ窶堙ｪ窶堙??愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ津ｪ窶堙ｰ窶氾ｻﾂ習窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩﾅｽﾅｾ窶堙俄?堙坂?佚･窶佚娯?｢ﾂｶ窶邸窶堋ｵ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｰﾂ考窶堋ｦ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堙懌?堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ窶卩｡窶扣ﾅ津ｪ窶堋ｩ窶愿ｺﾂ湘ｭﾅ津ｪ窶堙俄?堙??堋ｵ窶堙??斗窶堙坂?堙遺?堙ｱ窶堙??堙ｰﾂ鞘?倪?堋ｫ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽ窶堋ｾ窶堋ｯﾂ。

I understand. I still do not understand grammar very well, and because of that when I am practicing Japanese, I usually am thinking of nothing but grammar.
So as far as Polite and Daily, I usually just write whatever.

Thank you for the reminder. I will try to remember politeness levels also.

窶堙??堋､窶堋｢窶堋ｽ窶堋ｵ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堙?！ﾂ！ﾂ！ﾂﾅｽ窶樞?堙?ﾂ、ﾂ静｢窶佚寂?慊ｯﾅｽﾅｾ窶堙架?ｪ窶堙や?堙娯?堋ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽ窶堋ｭ窶堙遺?堋｢窶堙??堋ｷ窶堙ｦ窶堙仰。ﾂ
ﾅ陳ｻﾂ催昶?堙娯?ｹﾃｪﾅｽﾃｨ窶堙俄?堋ｷ窶堙冷?堙??堙娯?卍才?凪?堙ｰﾂ集窶吮??窶堋ｵ窶堙??堋ｭ窶堋ｾ窶堋ｳ窶堋｢窶堙仰。

Whats the difference?

Damicci

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nhk9

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JimmySeal

Tubthumper

Damicci

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Elizabeth

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Elizabeth

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Damicci

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undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Damicci

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Elizabeth

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Damicci

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Elizabeth

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Damicci

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Elizabeth

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