Understanding nakerebanarani

letslearn · 24 Dec 2013

Sorry for the romaji guys,
But it's from my tablet (haven't worked out how to install characters yet. It's an iPad so any advice welcomed)

The context is an emergency situation i.e earth quake.

The sentence is.

Mata Sugu tasukenakerebanaranai hito ha 5man 3000nin ni narimasu.

Mata = still,again

Sugu= nearby?

Tasuke=assistance

Nakerebanarani = have to or obligation.

Is it just saying that 53000 nearby people will have to become assistants or assist.

Toritoribe · 24 Dec 2013

すぐ: immediately / right now

～なければならない is attached to the -nai stem of a verb (because なければ is the -ba conditonal of ない), thus, たすけ is not a noun "assistance" but the -nai stem of 助ける "to help / rescue".

助けなければならない modifies 人. 人 is not the subject but the object of 助けなければならない.

～になる doesn't mean "to become". It states the number of the people as same as ～に上る.

letslearn · 24 Dec 2013

Toritoribe said:
すぐ: immediately / right now

～なければならない is attached to the -nai stem of a verb (because なければ is the -ba conditonal of ない), thus, たすけ is not a noun "assistance" but the -nai stem of 助ける "to help / rescue".

助けなければならない modifies 人. 人 is not the subject but the object of 助けなければならない.

～になる doesn't mean "to become". It states the number of the people as same as ～に上る.

So it is a conditional of the nai form of tasuke. Therefore the object is "not helping people"

So it reads: if there are no helping people immediately, then as many as 53000 people

Toritoribe · 24 Dec 2013

letslearn said:
So it is a conditional of the nai form of tasuke. Therefore the object is "not helping people"

Sorry, I can't understand what you want to say. I said 助け is not a noun but the -nai stem of a verb 助ける. ～なければならない means "have to" as a set phrase. Your understanding is correct here.
The subject of 助けなければならない is not written in the sentence, since it's obvious from the context. It's "we".

letslearn · 24 Dec 2013

The context from previous sentences is the verb 亡くなって。 how many people might die to be around 20000.
So using that. My translation is.

And, if people don't help immediately it could be as many as 53000 deaths.

Toritoribe · 24 Dec 2013

As I wrote, ～なければならない means "have to" as a set phrase. Sorry if my explanation confused you, but なければ is ORIGINALLY from the conditional of ない, but there is no implication of "if" anymore.

Again, 助けなければならない modifies 人. See the difference.
（私たちは）人を助けなければならない。
We have to rescue the people.

（私たちが）助けなければならない人
the people we have to rescue

There is no mention about "death" or something there.

letslearn · 24 Dec 2013

Thanks toritoribe using the brackets really helped. Also defining 助ける as to rescue, not as I kept using- to help.
So there is 50000 people that we need to rescue straight away.

Are the verbs always in the nai form with this phrase?

Eg. Tabenakereba naranai Have to eat.

nekojita · 24 Dec 2013

Which one, the first or the second? For this set form, the first part is always the negative conditional, but ~nakereba part can be shortened to ~nyakya. A small number of things can follow ~nakereba (in this meaning) for example, naranai (narimasen, naranu), ikenai, dame, akan, etc. The second half is sometimes dropped (もう行かなきゃ！etc).

Morphling · 24 Dec 2013

To type Japanese on ipad. Goto settings general keyboard keyboards and then add Japanese.

And yes "must" is always a double negative.
なければなりません
なければいけません
なければだめです

Otherwise it is a "if not then" kind of phrase.

I'd leave あかん as it is not 標準語。better learn to walk first.

Toritoribe · 24 Dec 2013

letslearn said:
Thanks toritoribe using the brackets really helped. Also defining 助ける as to rescue, not as I kept using- to help.
So there is 50000 people that we need to rescue straight away.

Are the verbs always in the nai form with this phrase?

Eg. Tabenakereba naranai Have to eat.

Literally, yes. The nuance is more close to "still, the number of people who need to be rescued immediately is 53,000."

The verb / adjective preceding なければならない is always the -nai stem.
生きる --> 生きない --> 生きなければならない have to live
歩く --> 歩かない --> 歩かなければならない have to walk
高い --> 高くない --> 高くなければならない have to be high

However, as for na-adjectives, は is not needed.
静かだ --> 静かではない --> 静かでなければならない have to be quiet
きれいだ --> きれいではない --> きれいでなければならない have to be clean

Interestingly, じゃ is the contraction of では, nevertheless じゃなければ, じゃなくちゃ, じゃなきゃ, etc. can be used.

letslearn · 26 Dec 2013

教えてくれて有難うございます。その言葉はかなり難しい。
今は発音するこたが練習しなければなりません

Understanding nakerebanarani

letslearn

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Toritoribe

松葉解禁

letslearn

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Toritoribe

松葉解禁

letslearn

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Toritoribe

松葉解禁

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nekojita

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Morphling

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Toritoribe

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letslearn

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