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Third Newspaper Translation

Zizka said:
閉まっている: present progressive 閉める, "to close"
I think it means that the women who went shopping and didn't know the stores were closing were surprised to see the see all of the stores closing.
Click to expand...
I feel like this has come up before, but note that 閉まる is an instantaneous/non-durative verb (i.e. it's one state or the other), and thus 閉まっている means "is closed (i.e. is in a state of being closed)", not "closing (present progressive)".
 
Note that this pattern is productive and you can do this with any -い adjective by changing the -い to -く and adding する／なる (e.g. 安くなる／安くする, 難しくする／難しくなる, etc.), or any -な adjective by adding に (without the な) plus する／なる. (綺麗にする／綺麗になる), The difference between する and なる is obviously that between transitive (する) and intransitive (なる).

Zizka said:
So the people are getting together around work.
Click to expand...
Yes, in the sense of "attracting people to do a particular job", as we've been talking about.

_______
edit: Sorry for making multiple separate responses. I noticed some additional questions/points worth commenting on after the fact. (Just putting this here so that the responses don't get lost back there with the page break.)
 
Thank you for the replies.

I had an idea.

Before moving on to the next article, I had this quiz idea.

Basically, you take some time to explain things. I thought you could quiz me on your explanations to make sure I understood. This way, you'll be sure I've understood what was explained and won't have to explain the same thing twice. I would also allow me to check my understanding.

You could ask me to translate a sentence or explain the function of a certain particle in a certain sentence or parse a sentence correctly or something like that. I thought it was a good idea.
 
I'd very much like to do this, but unfortunately thinking up effective quiz questions is somewhat more time-consuming than just answering straightforward questions or correcting errors and mistaken interpretations.

As I generally post here in brief moments of downtime as a change of pace while I'm working, I can't really promise that I'll have the time to do this. If I feel there's something clear and obvious that you should be quizzed on and an effective way of doing so comes to me quickly, I'll try to do this in the future, but I'm afraid I can't make any guarantees.
 
私は日本のことを知るために日本へ行きます。
今年は雪があまり降らないためにスキーができない。

Think about the difference between 日本のことを知る and 雪があまり降らない. The former is the subject's volitional action. The subject of the main clause 私 can control whether they (try to) know about Japan or not.

On the other hand, 雪が降る/降らない is a non-volitional action, and the subject can't (or no one can) control it.

Actually, this is the key of the two different meanings of ため. ため means "in order to" for the former case, and it's "because" in the latter.

As for 物を売る仕事になかなか人が集まらない, 集まる can be a volitional verb, but the subject of the main clause (shops/shop owners) can't control whether or not people are attracted to the job. That's why ため means "because" in the news article.

EDIT:
Check which meaning the following ため are.

私は日本のことを知らないため、日本へ行きます。
今年は雪がたくさん降るため、スキーができます。
店で働く人を集めるため、休みを多くしました。
ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、経営が厳しくなっています。
 
The advantage I saw of asking questions is to make sure what you've explained is understood. Sometimes you'll ask me for example what the に does in a certain sentence, it's a great way to check acquisitions I think!

So instead of just saying thank you for the replies I'll reformulate from now on starting now:

"Think about the difference between 日本のことを知る and 雪があまり降らない. The former is the subject's volitional action. The subject of the main clause 私 can control whether they (try to) know about Japan or not."

In the first sentence 私は日本のことを知るため(に)日本へ行く the subject wants to do something. In the first clause (preceding ため the speaker has a choice to want to know Japan more or not.


Toritoribe said:
On the other hand, 雪が降る/降らない is a non-volitional action, and the subject can't (or no one can) control it.
Click to expand...
In that sentence, the speaker has no control or choice whether snow will fall or not.

Toritoribe said:
Actually, this is the key of the two different meanings of ため. ため means "in order to" for the former case, and it's "because" in the latter.
Click to expand...
ため has two main meanings, "in order to" and "because". Whether or not volition plays a role will determine which one if the two meanings it is.

Even though 集まる can be volitional, it's not the case here because the owners can't influence the attraction to the job so it's because. When there is volition, it's "in order to" when there is volition "it's because".

私は日本のことを知らないため、日本へ行きます。
Volition: in order to

今年は雪がたくさん降るため、スキーができます。
No volition: because

店で働く人を集めるため、休みを多くしました。
Volition: in order to, the workers they have control to gather or not. In order to.

ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、経営が厳しくなっています。
This one is more difficult as I don't know what a Rival store is but I think it's because. I think the management is reacting to something they have no control on in the first clause. Because.
 
Zizka said:
私は日本のことを知らないため、日本へ行きます。
Volition: in order to
Click to expand...
No, it's "because". 日本のことを知らない is the present state of the subject. You can't do a volitional action "don't know (about) something". 日本のことを知りたくない is volitional.

ライバル is not a proper noun. ライバル店 means a rival shop/competitor, but yes it's "because."

ライバルを英語で訳す - goo辞書 英和和英

ライバルを英語に訳すと。英訳。a rivalライバルの rival恋のライバルa rival in love商売上のライバル同士rivals in trade／business rivals彼はその地位をめぐって私のライバルだったHe was my rival for the post.ライバル会社a rival company [firm]彼はよきライバルだったHe was a (friendly) rival who sp... - 80万項目以上収録、例文・コロケーションが豊富な無料英和和英辞典。
dictionary.goo.ne.jp

ライバル - Jisho.org

jisho.org

「ライバル」の英語・英語例文・英語表現 - Weblio和英辞書

｢ライバル｣は英語でどう表現する？【単語】a rival...【例文】Rival, huh?...【その他の表現】rival... - 1000万語以上収録！英訳・英文・英単語の使い分けならWeblio英和・和英辞書
ejje.weblio.jp

How about this one?
ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、特売セールを行っています。
(Hint: Actually, this is a tricky one. Two different interpretations are equally possible.)
 
ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、特売セールを行っています。
Because a lot of people are gathering at the rival store,
(that's not something you have control on.) Other people decide to go there, the speaker has no say in the matter.
 
Toritoribe said:
(Hint: Actually, this is a tricky one. Two different interpretations are equally possible.)
Click to expand...
Zizka said:
ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、特売セールを行っています。
Because a lot of people are gathering at the rival store,
Click to expand...
That's my first reading too, but considering what Toritoribe-san wrote, I thought about this.

１． 私たちの作戦は、ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、特売セールを行っています。
２．ライバル店の作戦は、ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、特売セールを行っています。

These imply the two different meanings.

The topic clause doesn't have to part of the sentence in question, the point is the meaning changes depending on the topic at the time the sentence in question is spoken.
 
Zizka said:
ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、特売セールを行っています。
Because a lot of people are gathering at the rival store,
Click to expand...
Notice that it's 人をたくさん集める, not 人がたくさん集まる. It's transitive, and 人 is not the subject.

Unfortunately, 作戦は～行っています is ungrammatical.
 
Errm. Right. The way I wrote it doesn't do what I wanted actually, does it. Not without rephrasing the second half, which will change meaning a bit.

I think I should have said,
作戦について、私たちは、ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、特売セールを行っています。

Or if I didn't care about preserving the second half, and losing the information that it's currently happening,
私たちの作戦は、ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、特売セールを行うことです。
 
It's more simple. It's a usual omission of the subject; ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、（私たちは）特売セールを行っています。 .
And yes, this is one of the two possible interpretations.
 
Yes, I was trying to write a pair of sentences that would imply the two different subjects of 私たち and ライバル店 for 行っています without changing the original sentence.

I got a little mixed up though when I decided to add a comment on 作戦 to narrow the focus of the topic. Thank you for the correction on that.
 
Toritoribe said:
Notice that it's 人をたくさん集める, not 人がたくさん集まる. It's transitive, and 人 is not the subject.
Click to expand...
So in that case, 人 is the direct object then. Also the reason why it's 集める is because transitive verbs end with an 〜え or 〜す sound while intransitive verb an 〜あ sound. The direct object of what? 集める. So the rival store gathers what? People.
 
So, what is your translation of the whole sentence? I already pointed out that "Two different interpretations are equally possible." Your aim is to know about ため, not just about 集める, no?
 
ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、特売セールを行っています。
The rival store is making a sale because it wants to attract many people.
 
Not really. They can control to gather/attract people (at least they can control whether they try to gather/attract people or not), thus, 集める is their volitional action, and the subject of the main clause is also they (= the rival shop).

And how about the other one?
 
Wait a moment please, I want to get that one first.

I thought the subject of the main clause was the rival store?
Zizka said:
ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、特売セールを行っています。
Click to expand...
Who does "they" refer to then as a subject?
 
It seems that I edited my previous post while you were writing your reply also here. Please try to refresh the page and read it again.

Zizka said:
I thought the subject of the main clause was the rival store
Click to expand...
Yes, that's right.
 
Yeah, there's no notification when you edit so they're easy to miss. So if it's volitional is:
They (the rival stores) are making a sale in order to attract many people.
It feels weird putting the pronoun there since " rival store" is used in the sentence. I don't see the need to replace it with "they".
 
I used "they" just because you already stated "The rival store" in your post. There is no need to stick to "they" in your translation, needless to say.

You got it right. How about the other one?
 
ライバル店が人をたくさん集めるため、（私たちは）特売セールを行っています。 .
Because the rival store attract a lot of people, we are making a sale.
 
Yes, that's right.
As you can see so far, the main clause/the clause that follows ため also affects the meaning of ため. You need to determine the meaning of ため by interpreting the whole sentence in the context after all, not just by the clause preceding ため.
 
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