The difference between ッ and ー

LewiiG · 21 Jan 2013

These are two fictional character's names:
リューク
リュック

What is the difference between "ッ" and "ー"? I used to think they were the same.

eeky · 21 Jan 2013

They are not the same at all.

ー (chōonpu) lengthens the preceding vowel (normally only used in katakana).

ッ (sokuon) means that the following consonant is extended for a whole syllable (or, in case that is not physically possible, there is a kind of hiatus before the consonant). You will find more precise explanations of the phonology of this on the Internet, or just listen to how a few example words are pronounced. Hiragana equivalent is っ.

LewiiG · 21 Jan 2013

So リューク is basically リュウク and in リュック there is a slight pause before saying the ク part? Thanks for the explanation. To be honest this is something I should have known a long time ago xD ありがとうございました

Angel Valis · 21 Jan 2013

ッ is usually transliterated with a double letter, thus your example リュック would be transliterated as ryukku, whereas your other example would be ryuuku. To me, speaking a long consonant is like starting to make the consonant sound, pausing for a short moment, and then saying the full syllable.

I would say リュ and immediately after, but before I completely stop airflow, put my tongue in the place where I will make the next sound, cut airflow (just for a moment), and then make the next sound.

eeky · 21 Jan 2013

LewiiG said:
So リューク is basically リュウク

AFAIK they are pronounced exactly the same. I don't fully understand the rules by which it is decided which spelling to use, but in transcriptions of foreign words and names, which is one of the major uses of katakana, one normally sees ー rather than the repeated vowel. If for some reason you wanted to use katakana for a word normally written in hiragana or kanji, maybe you would use the repeated vowel.

LewiiG · 23 Jan 2013

Yeah. They must have basically the same pronounciation. I searched some words, and found people writing スター like スタア and サーミオン like サアミオン (some sort of medicine thing). So I guess it is up to them. Not sure if there is a "correct" way. "ー" is certainly much more common though. ああ is also あー (as an interjection). Must just be a shorthand. Anyway thanks for the extra information.

Mike Cash · 23 Jan 2013

The difference between ッ and ー

LewiiG said:
So リューク is basically リュウク and in リュック there is a slight pause before saying the ク part? Thanks for the explanation. To be honest this is something I should have known a long time ago xD ありがとうございました

The elongated vowels and the glottal stops really are very important and they tend to be something that English speaking learners ignore or gloss over as unimportant, perhaps because we don't really have them in English. Sometimes because they just feel silly saying them.

Consider the following words:

おと
おっと
おうと

If you are unaware of the the distinction or can't pick up on the distinction when listening, you're not going to recognize that they are three very different words.

If you don't know or simply don't bother to make the distinction when speaking (for whatever reason), then anybody listening to you is going to be either perplexed, annoyed, amused, stymied, or some combination thereof.

If you've been going along in your studies without a grasp on this very important point, then one thing for certain is that your vocal output is butchered and your listening ability is hamstrung before you ever left the starting gate. Go back and get a firm handle on this before doing anything else.

LewiiG · 23 Jan 2013

Mike Cash said:
If you've been going along in your studies without a grasp on this very important point, then one thing for certain is that your vocal output is butchered and your listening ability is hamstrung before you ever left the starting gate. Go back and get a firm handle on this before doing anything else.

I understand all of that. The differences. I have known about all that since when I should have, near the beginning. The one thing I didn't know was that "ー" just meant an extra vowel. I thought it was the same as っ or ッ but just different. Why I didn't question it before I don't know, it just became apparant when I saw what I posted. "I should have known a long time ago" indeed.

Looking back on my posts, it does sound like I had little to no understanding of this key concept. I used too many question marks, and asked a really base question. Sorry. Nevertheless, your advice to me (had I not known) and information is greatly appreciated

Mike Cash · 24 Jan 2013

The difference between ッ and ー

I see, but the same would hold for カート and カット, for example.

LewiiG · 24 Jan 2013

Mike Cash said:
I see, but the same would hold for カート and カット, for example.

Yeah. I would have had problems with that. If I had seen the two together, before I knew, I would have asked the same thing. Foolish me. Let's hope I don't have any other language butchering factors that I am unaware of xD

Mike Cash · 24 Jan 2013

The difference between ッ and ー

Learning Japanese is an ongoing repeating exercise in feeling foolish every now and then. Don't sweat it.

The difference between ッ and ー

LewiiG

先輩

eeky

先輩

LewiiG

先輩

Angel Valis

黒川

eeky

先輩

LewiiG

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

LewiiG

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

LewiiG

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

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