Teaching English in Japan with a Master's in English

Glenski · 15 Feb 2015

The only evidence I can provide is all the gaijin I met who had been living in Japan for 10 years or so and couldn't string a sentence together.

I think you may not have understood my question. I asked about concrete evidence related to the u-curve's depiction of culture shock, not about language ability. There are plenty of foreigners here who manage to live comfortably enough without learning much of the language.

When I hired part-timers at my university I would trawl through the resumes and there were few people with 2kyuu or better.

Not everyone takes that exam, you know.

I have made enough money here and would like to go and get a job in Kyushu and see some greenery and enjoy onsen and hiking and its rather hot here in the summer.

Good for you on the advancement and savings. My question was more about why you want to come back and work here, not why you want to do sightseeing (which you can do anytime). So, why come back to work if you hated it before?

ishibai · 15 Feb 2015

Glenski said:
I think you may not have understood my question. I asked about concrete evidence related to the u-curve's depiction of culture shock, not about language ability. There are plenty of foreigners here who manage to live comfortably enough without learning much of the language.

Not everyone takes that exam, you know.

Good for you on the advancement and savings. My question was more about why you want to come back and work here, not why you want to do sightseeing (which you can do anytime). So, why come back to work if you hated it before?

I don't agree with the latter stages of the u curve adaptation and assimilation as this never happens in Japan only for a few people. I don't even agree with the double u curve with surface adjustments then another slump. Concrete evidence is the number of gaijin university teachers I saw in the part-time faculty room who sat in a group and wouldn't talk to Japanese colleagues. Most gaijins in Japan did the same as me, frequent gaijin bars, hand out with fellow English speakers, watch satellite tv, read English books etc... The only evidence I can provide is observational unfortunately.

When at anytime did I say I hated Japan? I want to come back as middle east universities are pressure cookers, sure they pay well but you have to be competent and professional. The standards and expectations for faculty are so much higher than in Japan. In Japan, you can get by being a gaijin, you don't need to publish anything of quality, there is no technology integration, no accreditation from America to meet. To be honest most of the English departments in Japanese Universities have less standards than an elementary school back in the states. I am getting old and don't want the stress anymore, I don't need the money either. I have just put my two children through ivy league colleges. All I want to do is make about 10-15 million a year, publish a paper in the language teacher once a year, present at an ESL conference and live in Kyushu or Okinawa.

Majestic · 15 Feb 2015

ishibai said:
To be honest most of the English departments in Japanese Universities have less standards than an elementary school back in the states.

Professor, surely you mean "lower" standards.

Mike Cash · 15 Feb 2015

So he chooses to sit deep in the bubble, surrounded by others who also choose to sit deep in the bubble, and then surmises that since everybody he knows is in there with him there is no gaijin life outside the bubble.....

I use "he" here, as I am quite obviously being ignored and see no point in pretending otherwise.

ishibai · 16 Feb 2015

Mike Cash said:
So he chooses to sit deep in the bubble, surrounded by others who also choose to sit deep in the bubble, and then surmises that since everybody he knows is in there with him there is no gaijin life outside the bubble.....

I use "he" here, as I am quite obviously being ignored and see no point in pretending otherwise.

I am ignoring you as your reasoning is correct, but I did say there are a few other gaijin who do integrate and decide to not live in the bubble. But, if you conducted research on it I am sure it would be something like 10% not in the bubble.

Glenski · 16 Feb 2015

Well, you most certainly gave the impression that you hated it here, especially since it apparently didn't live up to your expectations. As for integrating into Japanese society, is there a reason why you figure a foreigner must do so to the extent of becoming as Japanese as you have described? I ask because many don't want to sacrifice their individuality that way, and they do quite a bit more than just live in the gaijin bubble.

Go ahead and try getting a job at 54, even with a doctoral degree and experience here. I don't think it will be easy for you, and what's more, I don't see the consistency in your thinking about enjoying life here. Pretty much too late to apply for April positions right now.

Mike Cash · 16 Feb 2015

ishibai said:
I am ignoring you as your reasoning is correct, but I did say there are a few other gaijin who do integrate and decide to not live in the bubble. But, if you conducted research on it I am sure it would be something like 10% not in the bubble.

The percentages are irrelevant to the fact that it is a choice, which the only point where I took issue with your initial remark casting it as an impossibility.

I'll give you credit for originality. You're the first person I've ever seen make the "you can't integrate" point without taking the "the Japanese won't let you" approach. I'm glad to see you didn't go that way.

ishibai · 17 Feb 2015

Glenski said:
Well, you most certainly gave the impression that you hated it here, especially since it apparently didn't live up to your expectations. As for integrating into Japanese society, is there a reason why you figure a foreigner must do so to the extent of becoming as Japanese as you have described? I ask because many don't want to sacrifice their individuality that way, and they do quite a bit more than just live in the gaijin bubble.

Go ahead and try getting a job at 54, even with a doctoral degree and experience here. I don't think it will be easy for you, and what's more, I don't see the consistency in your thinking about enjoying life here. Pretty much too late to apply for April positions right now.[/QUOTE

IQUOTE]

Glenski said:

Well, you most certainly gave the impression that you hated it here, especially since it apparently didn't live up to your expectations. As for integrating into Japanese society, is there a reason why you figure a foreigner must do so to the extent of becoming as Japanese as you have described? I ask because many don't want to sacrifice their individuality that way, and they do quite a bit more than just live in the gaijin bubble.

Go ahead and try getting a job at 54, even with a doctoral degree and experience here. I don't think it will be easy for you, and what's more, I don't see the consistency in your thinking about enjoying life here. Pretty much too late to apply for April positions right now.

Click to expand...

I am an HOD and have been for the past 10 years in the middle east, prior to that I was an HOD for about 10 years in Japan. I have around 30 years university teaching experience, a PhD in linguistics and a pretty good research profile. I doubt age would be a problem as most HODs are in their 50s. My major problem is I have a choice to either step things up a gear and become dean or take things more slowly and move to another country as an HOD or even just professor rank. One of my choices is Japan. I love golf, taking onsens and my wife would like to see Asia; those are the reasons.

ishibai · 17 Feb 2015

Sorry still trying to figure this forum out.
I am an HOD and have been for the past 10 years in the middle east, prior to that I was an HOD for about 10 years in Japan. I have around 30 years university teaching experience, a PhD in linguistics and a pretty good research profile. I doubt age would be a problem as most HODs are in their 50s. My major problem is I have a choice to either step things up a gear and become dean or take things more slowly and move to another country as an HOD or even just professor rank. One of my choices is Japan. I love golf, taking onsens and my wife would like to see Asia, plus I used to live there before; those are the main reasons.

ishibai · 17 Feb 2015

Mike Cash said:
The percentages are irrelevant to the fact that it is a choice, which the only point where I took issue with your initial remark casting it as an impossibility.

I'll give you credit for originality. You're the first person I've ever seen make the "you can't integrate" point without taking the "the Japanese won't let you" approach. I'm glad to see you didn't go that way.

I am sure Japanese will let people integrate as I have seen people do so. The people who don't integrate, such as myself, have consciously or sub-consciously decided not to.

Glenski · 17 Feb 2015

I doubt age would be a problem as most HODs are in their 50s.

What did it take for you to become head of department earlier in Japan? And what uni was it? I have a very hard time believing that you managed it in any university of any worth.
You needed to be at professor level first.
You definitely should have had high proficiency in the spoken and written language in order to communicate with administration and other teachers, whether by email or in committees (two things a HOD would be involved in every day). You claimed: "After 10 years I was fluent enough to buy cars, real estate and get by although my Japanese was still not good enough to enjoy hanging out with Japanese people." That makes me wonder just how much Japanese you were actually capable of, back then and now.
You usually need to have been at the uni for a while (to get the good old boys' network on your side).

Circumstances, please.

Besides, time has passed. Schools are cutting back. You haven't been in Japan for over a decade.

johnnyG · 17 Feb 2015

It's water under the bridge, but around 2005 I was elected 主任者, kind of a weakened 学科長. I was a full prof (still am!), a good part of the reason I got nailed against the wall, but in spite of telling everyone that I didn't want to do it (including the dean), I spent a couple years at it, and thankfully, those days are gone.

Rather than being something earned or deserved (or desired), it was awarded by default. Kind of like that game with the chairs when the music stops.

ishibai · 18 Feb 2015

Glenski said:
What did it take for you to become head of department earlier in Japan? And what uni was it? I have a very hard time believing that you managed it in any university of any worth.
You needed to be at professor level first.
You definitely should have had high proficiency in the spoken and written language in order to communicate with administration and other teachers, whether by email or in committees (two things a HOD would be involved in every day). You claimed: "After 10 years I was fluent enough to buy cars, real estate and get by although my Japanese was still not good enough to enjoy hanging out with Japanese people." That makes me wonder just how much Japanese you were actually capable of, back then and now.
You usually need to have been at the uni for a while (to get the good old boys' network on your side).

Circumstances, please.

Besides, time has passed. Schools are cutting back. You haven't been in Japan for over a decade.

Excuse me, but I find your line of questioning rather rude. I was 26 when I finished my PhD, it took me a while to become professor rank as it does most people. After being professor for a while the previous HOD retired and I was the only person who wanted to do it, plus I was one of the only people in the department with a PhD, most were MA in those days. As I said I had around 2kyuu Japanese and there were some full-timers who didn't speak a lick of Japanese. Some committees were in Japanese where I would sit as a token gaijin and most things would go above my head. Please do not lecture me about what it is like to work at a Japanese university as I was probably working at a university when you were still studying at one or in high school. Do you work at a university? and are you a professor? I really do not feel that the rank of the university is important, unless you are aiming to get a job in the west in the future, which I am not, I am on part of the traveling circus of incompetent adacedmia abroad. I am sure you know money talks and private universities on the whole pay better than nationals, so no my university wasn't a high ranking one, and neither is the one now, but I am sure I am paid about 3 times more than an HOD at Todai that matters much more to me the the rank of the university.

Glenski · 18 Feb 2015

Excuse me, but I find your line of questioning rather rude. I was 26 when I finished my PhD, it took me a while to become professor rank as it does most people. After being professor for a while the previous HOD retired and I was the only person who wanted to do it, plus I was one of the only people in the department with a PhD, most were MA in those days.

Rude? Wow. I was merely asking for details like the info you just provided. (Thank you, by the way. That's precisely what I wanted. Without it, people on this forum only have to guess.) Don't see how that could be rude. Just inquisitive.

Personally, I think you were lucky. You even admitted getting the position by default.

Please do not lecture me about what it is like to work at a Japanese university as I was probably working at a university when you were still studying at one or in high school.

I'm 4 years older than you. See what happens when you assume and don't ask questions instead? I find your line of questioning rude.

Do you work at a university? and are you a professor?

Yes, full-time tenured. No, not professor yet.

I really do not feel that the rank of the university is important

For your personal reasons, I would agree. For the sake of becoming HOD as a foreigner, it matters, as you have just admitted.

Anyway, thanks for providing the information. It was helpful.

Glenski · 18 Feb 2015

By the way, I took the liberty of contacting Paul H for you. He is willing to let you contact him by phone or email. Ask me if you are still interested, and I'll send them in a PM. How's that for rude now?

ishibai · 18 Feb 2015

sorry, I was quick to jump the gun. I don't really need his details, but thanks all the same. I just wondered where he posts these days. Do you know if he still posts on forums? if so which ones?
If you are older than me I am sure you know that age does not really matter when you are in academia. If you are in your 60s then yes it is a problem, but if you are dean or provost etc.. they want the grey hair and beard. Why do you think I will have trouble landing a HOD position in Japan? not being rude just wanting your take on things since I am out of the loop.

Glenski · 18 Feb 2015

ishibai said:
sorry, I was quick to jump the gun. I don't really need his details, but thanks all the same. I just wondered where he posts these days. Do you know if he still posts on forums? if so which ones?

I don't have those answers.

If you are older than me I am sure you know that age does not really matter when you are in academia.

That all depends on what you are talking about. It matters for some things. Just look at JRECIN and you'll see that many job ads don't want people over 35, for example. And, if you are getting up there in age, they won't consider hiring you if they are looking for a long-term position to fill.

Why do you think I will have trouble landing a HOD position in Japan? not being rude just wanting your take on things since I am out of the loop.

I believe I have already explained that.

ishibai · 19 Feb 2015

Glenski said:
I don't have those answers.

That all depends on what you are talking about. It matters for some things. Just look at JRECIN and you'll see that many job ads don't want people over 35, for example. And, if you are getting up there in age, they won't consider hiring you if they are looking for a long-term position to fill.

I believe I have already explained that.

Yes, I have seen those jobs and wouldn't even bother applying. I like to work for ethical companies, not companies that discriminate based on age. The universities that post things like that on their job ads are an embarrassment to academia and should serve as a red flag to potential employees. Most of those jobs are mid-career/entry-level university positions and I would have more experience and research than the whole hiring committee put together.

Glenski · 19 Feb 2015

Just how long did you plan to stay here? I ask because since you were here last, things have changed such that it has become far more difficult to stay at any employer as a typical contract teacher. Five years is the limit now; after that, you are obligated by law to be hired permanently, but employers are finding ways to avoid that because it is too costly to keep people as permanent staff.

When were you hoping to start work, too? I'm sure you realize the job hunting season is largely over at this point.

ishibai · 20 Feb 2015

Glenski said:
Just how long did you plan to stay here? I ask because since you were here last, things have changed such that it has become far more difficult to stay at any employer as a typical contract teacher. Five years is the limit now; after that, you are obligated by law to be hired permanently, but employers are finding ways to avoid that because it is too costly to keep people as permanent staff.

When were you hoping to start work, too? I'm sure you realize the job hunting season is largely over at this point.

I am really not sure, it is just a thought at the moment. I will apply for next academic year and if I land something decent in Kyushu I will take it. It would need to be around the 10-15 million mark though with a relocation and subsidized housing to be worth it. I really don't mind 5 year contracts as when you are HOD you are usually out in 5 years anyway and you don't want to be demoted, so you just move on. I am sure that I could stay at a place longer and get tenure due to my research profile, universities like people like me (a real academic) as I make them look good. I may even stay in the middle east and shoot for dean positions although I don't really want that responsibility, the money would be nice.

Glenski · 20 Feb 2015

It would need to be around the 10-15 million mark though with a relocation and subsidized housing to be worth it.

Good luck in today's economy and with the image people have of Middle Easterners.

ishibai · 20 Feb 2015

Glenski said:
/quote]It would need to be around the 10-15 million mark though with a relocation and subsidized housing to be worth it.

Good luck in today's economy and with the image people have of Middle Easterners.[/QUOTE]

I have a Canadian passport, so I doubt they would even think I was anything but Canadian. Surely in Japan at my level the pay should be that amount, it is a pretty reasonable amount to expect. I would think 10 million for a professor and more for a HOD.

Glenski · 20 Feb 2015

I hope you don't hide any information from your interviewers like you have just done here. That really pissed me off.

ishibai · 20 Feb 2015

Glenski said:
I hope you don't hide any information from your interviewers like you have just done here. That really pissed me off.

What do you mean? you mean don't disclose the fact my face is arabic? does it matter what I look like?

ishibai · 20 Feb 2015

I think they would soon know what they are getting when they interview me by skype and haven't you seen arabic looking people teaching English in Japan? I have seen a lot, in fact 50% of westerners have arabic blood.

Teaching English in Japan with a Master's in English

Just me

Kouhai

先輩

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Kouhai

Just me

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Kouhai

Kouhai

Kouhai

Just me

Sempai

Kouhai

Just me

Just me

Kouhai

Just me

Kouhai

Just me

Kouhai

Just me

Kouhai

Just me

Kouhai

Kouhai

Similar threads