Tari Tari Suru

Mataeka · 20 Nov 2011

Ok, I get the basis of tari tari suru - basically plain past form ie yondari ... but I always get lost on the suru part.

Can you say - 来年に日本語をぺらぺら話したり、読んだり、分かりする?

I'm trying to say I will become fluent in speaking, reading and understanding Japanese by next year... but the wakaru doesnt seem like you can conjugate it naturally ...

Is this a way around that?

来年に日本語をぺらぺら話したり、読んだり、分かるようにする or could you even do off with the suru and say naru? or does that defeat the tari tari suru form....

Help?

Mike Cash · 20 Nov 2011

This construction is used for non-exhaustive (incomplete) lists and has very much a casual feel to it and really isn't the sort of construction you'd use for what you're trying to say there.

"By next year" is 来年までに (and means before next year comes). I suspect you mean to say "by the end of next year", so something like 来年の内に or 来年の年末までに.

来年に means quite literally "next year" and will be understood to mean the period between January 1st and December 31st of next year....leaving out the rest of this year, you see.

Your verbs in English are things you hope to become fluent in...and that part doesn't make it into your translation (and it needs to be there). The able to part similarly is not present.

話す --> 話せる --> 話せるようになる
読む --> 読める --> 読めるようになる

For 分かる lets switch to either 理解 or 聴き取る

理解する --> 理解出来る --> 理解出来るようになる
聴き取る --> 聴き取れる --> 聴き取れるようになる

来年一杯までに日本語を上手に話せるように、読めるように、そして聴き取れるようになります。 would be my suggestion, although it would be much more 日本人らしい to substitute 頑張ります for なります at the end. （or なりたい)

Mike Cash · 22 Nov 2011

So glad I was able to help.....

Mataeka · 24 Nov 2011

? that came across kinda hostile?

Mike Cash · 24 Nov 2011

That's because as viewed from the Tapatalk app it looks like you never even checked back for a reply.

Mataeka · 24 Nov 2011

I see. Well I did. You covered everything pretty well and I had nothing left to add - the "like" button seemed appropriate.

Thanks.

Mike Cash · 24 Nov 2011

It seems that "like" notices don't appear on Tapatalk.

At any rate, when someone takes the time to write up a reply it is generally considered good form to write some sort of acknowledgement. Something a bit more than a mouse click on a "like" button.

Mataeka · 24 Nov 2011

.... Eh. Whatever. You didnt answer my question of how to use tari tari suru in that context, instead you gave me different grammar points. Sure they were good... But I am no closer to understanding tari tari suru.

I originally thought it rude to say that so I appreciated the suggestion with a small gesture. Now I couldnt give a flying ....

Mike Cash · 24 Nov 2011

It was unclear whether you were more focused on that particular form in general or on rendering the idea of that sentence in particular and had seized upon that construction as being most appropriate. I guessed the latter and went with something different as the construction you had chosen wasn't really appropriate to the situation.

There is nothing particularly difficult about the construction. Just use it for casual inexhaustive listings of actions expressed as past tense verbs with り tacked on and wrap up with a する.

休みの日はテレビを見たり本を読んだりして過ごす。

"I spend my days off watching television, reading books (and doing some other stuff)".

When replies fall short of what you feel they should be and fail to answer your question, you would be better served by saying so and asking for clarification rather than remaining silent.

Mataeka · 24 Nov 2011

but the wakaru doesnt seem like you can conjugate it naturally ...

Is this a way around that?

分かるようにする or could you even do off with the suru and say naru? or does that defeat the tari tari suru form....

Although I know realise my folly with my previous sentence "来年に日本語をぺらぺら話したり、読んだり、分かりする" Should end in 分かったりする to use it in that format. Like 食べたりする、飲んだりする etc - but is there any verbs you can't use this form with?

undrentide · 25 Nov 2011

Mataeka said:
Can you say - 来年に日本語をぺらぺら話したり、読んだり、分かりする?

Short answer is "no".

Mataeka said:
I'm trying to say I will become fluent in speaking, reading and understanding Japanese by next year... but the wakaru doesnt seem like you can conjugate it naturally ...

In other words (1) I will become able (2) to speak, read or understand Japanese well.

You can use ～たり、～たり for (2).
日本語をぺらぺら話したり、読んだり、理解したり

Then translate the (1) part - できるようになる.

来年 next year
来年までに by next year
来年には (not now but) by next year

Toritoribe · 25 Nov 2011

Mataeka said:
Although I know realise my folly with my previous sentence " 来年に日本語をぺらぺら話したり、読んだり、分かりする" Should end in 分かったりする to use it in that format. Like 食べたりする、飲んだりする etc - but is there any verbs you can't use this form with?

It's not the problem of the type of the verb but the problem of your example "I will become", as undrentide-san pointed out. It's impossible to express that meaning just using by する or なる even for 食べる or 飲む.

◯来年中に、刺身を食べたり、日本酒を飲んだりできるようになりたい。
☓来年中に、刺身を食べたり、日本酒を飲んだりする。

わかる can be used to describe just a state.

彼は勘がいいので、相手が何を言いたいのかを感じ取れたり、何をしてほしいのかがわかったりする。

Mataeka · 26 Nov 2011

Cool. That does clarify it a lot better. So would you use tari tari suru more in a situation like if someone asks you what you did over your holidays ... or what you like doing?

Toritoribe · 26 Nov 2011

In the situation that you end the sentence with the dictionary/polite form, ～たり～たりする/します is used.

休日には何をしますか？
公園を歩きます。 --> テニスをしたり、公園を歩いたりします。

休日には何をするのが好きですか？
公園を歩くのが好きです。 --> テニスをしたり、公園を歩いたりするのが好きです

旅行に行ったら、何がしたいですか？
温泉に入りたいです。 --> 買い物したり、温泉に入ったりしたいです。

Mataeka · 27 Nov 2011

Thanks Toritoribe, That clears it up.

Tari Tari Suru

Mataeka

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Mataeka

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Mataeka

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Mataeka

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Mataeka

先輩

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Mataeka

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Mataeka

先輩

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