...something

Fehrant · 8 May 2006

The title here might be a bit misleading, or even silly, but it has a reason to be. The easiest way to explain what I need help with, would be through the use of examples, rather than an explanation. Without further ado:

- "What was his last name? Jona... something."
- "What's the word for when you keep leaving things until the last moment? Procrast... something."

I'd like to know what's the equivalent of that "something" in Japanese. If the examples provided do not explain the concept of what I want to know properly, I'd gladly explain it another way.

Glenn · 8 May 2006

I think 何とか is what you're looking for. I was thinking maybe ジョナとか何とか, but that seems like you'd be saying "Jona, or something like that" as opposed to "Jona... something." ジョナ。。。何とかいう人 I think would be the equivalent of your first example.

Fehrant · 8 May 2006

"something like that" is ok too. I don't expect a literal equivalent; rather, more of a conceptual equivalent.

Thanks, Glenn.

Elizabeth · 8 May 2006

Fehrant said:
"something like that" is ok too. I don't expect an literal equivalent; rather, more of a conceptual equivalent.
Thanks, Glenn.

何とか may be taken as closer to "somehow" or "one way or another" or "in some way"
か何か is "or something" like it could or should be a different category of thing.

A literal equivalent is necessary here it seems but I'm also not doing very good at answering what was originally asked....何かしら maybe ?

KrazyKat · 8 May 2006

Fehrant said:
"something like that" is ok too. I don't expect a literal equivalent; rather, more of a conceptual equivalent.
Thanks, Glenn.

English lesson:
'Jona or something like that' says that you aren't sure whether or not the name was Jona or not.
'Jona....something' suggests that you think that the the Jona bit is right but have forgotten what comes afterwards.
So they are not equivalents.

Glenn · 8 May 2006

This is a minor detail, but seeing that Fehrant is in Argentina, Jona is probably actually ホナ and not ジョナ. I just wanted to correct my mistake there (assuming that it was one).

Fehrant · 8 May 2006

KrazyKat: not to sound arrogant, but my English is fine, thank you. As you properly pointed out, "Jona, or something like that..." suggests that you tried to guess the entire name, as opposed to "Jona... something" where it is implied that you only got a part of it right, but don't remember the rest.

I know that, in English, they might not be technically the same thing. However, if the concept of expressing uncertainty of a word (complete or partial) in Japanese can be translated into "...something" or "...something like that" I'm ok with knowing either, although my original intent was something among the lines of partial words.

You are right, though. While technically not the same, that might be something specific to English and not to Japanese (just taking a shot in the dark, here).

Glenn: No need to go that far. I just made up a name (existent, or non-existent; that's beside the point).

KrazyKat · 8 May 2006

Fehrant said:
KrazyKat: not to sound arrogant, but my English is fine, thank you. As you properly pointed out, "Jona, or something like that..." suggests that you tried to guess the entire name, as opposed to "Jona... something" where it is implied that you only got a part of it right, but don't remember the rest.
I know that, in English, they might not be technically the same thing. However, if the concept of expressing uncertainty of a word (complete or partial) in Japanese can be translated into "...something" or "...something like that" I'm ok with knowing either, although my original intent was something among the lines of partial words.
You are right, though. While technically not the same, that might be something specific to English and not to Japanese (just taking a shot in the dark, here).

I didn't mean to offend you with my post there or anything.ﾂ I wasn't trying to make any kind of comment about your English ability. I would have phrased my post in the exact same way if you had lived your entire life in the UK. Just saying that those two sentences say quite different things, which is an important point when we are trying to translate.

Its really a Japanese lesson. You have to really understand what you actually want to say before translating it to Japanese, otherwise you will run into problems. The grammar and vocab is to different otherwise.

Fehrant · 8 May 2006

I understand. If I sound aggressively defensive pay no heed; it's just my nature. You are absolutely right in what you pointed out, so we'll leave it at that.

undrentide · 8 May 2006

Fehrant said:
- "What was his last name? Jona... something."
- "What's the word for when you keep leaving things until the last moment? Procrast... something."
I'd like to know what's the equivalent of that "something" in Japanese.

The most common word used for this kind of "somehting" is 何とか, as Glenn san already posted.

"What was his last name? Jona... something."
「あのひとの苗字（みょうじ）、なんだっけ？ジョナ...なんとか」

"What's the word for when you keep leaving things until the last moment? Procrast... something."
「ぐずぐず引（ひ）き伸（の）ばすってどういう言葉だっけ？プロクラスティ..なんとかって」

When you are talking about a person's name, another word is 何某（なにがし）.
This is rather an archaic and not used so often nowadays, though.
「山田何某（やまだなにがし）という人」
A person called Yamada something.

Fehrant · 9 May 2006

そうですか。ありがとう、undrentideさん。

Just one more question regarding what you explained, though.

"なんとかって" -- why the last "-tte" after nantoka?

Glenn · 9 May 2006

Think of it as a contraction for という（こと／言葉）.

Fehrant · 9 May 2006

I'm not familiar with the meaning behind the expression という, although I am aware that 言う is the verb "to say" and 言葉 means "word/language". It looks similar, however, to と思います, therefore would an approximate equivalent of という be something like "I say so"?

Glenn · 9 May 2006

It's often used when you want to mention something called something else, like 山田という人, "a person called Yamada." In this case it marks a specific thing/word: the one that's "procrasi... something."

...something

Fehrant

後輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Fehrant

後輩

Elizabeth

先輩

KrazyKat

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Fehrant

後輩

KrazyKat

先輩

Fehrant

後輩

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Fehrant

後輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Fehrant

後輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

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