Question regarding text

nathan_forst · 9 Jan 2006

I am new here, so, please bear with me.

I am wondering if it is possible for me to be able to write in hiragana and katakana on this board. First off, though, I'll need to understand how to do that using this keyboard and computer. Is there an online keyboard somewhere that I can download that will allow me to write in Hiragana/Katakana?

I am studying Nihongo with my Sensei, but I need to gain some extra practice... and this is as good of a place as any. I am going to travel to Japan in the spring of 2007, so, I really need to know what I'm saying.

nice gaijin · 9 Jan 2006

はじめまして, you certainly can type in Japanese here!

if you use windows, check out this site for how to be able to type in foreign characters. Chances are until you install this you won't have Japanese fonts, which means you probably can't read the first word of this post. http://newton.uor.edu/Departments&P...pt/Language/asianlanguageinstallation_XP.html

nathan_forst · 9 Jan 2006

I already do have the Japanese language packet installed on my computer. I just need to know how to type in Nihongo. I'll check out the link.

I'm fine, thank you.

nathan_forst · 9 Jan 2006

窶堙??堙?窶堋?窶堙ｨ窶堋ｪ窶堙??堋ｲ窶堋ｴ窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷ

Mike Cash · 9 Jan 2006

Congratulation! You made it work!

One small note...though the elongated vowels often seem extraneous, they're really very important. So どうも instead of ども and ありがとう instead of ありがと

Anchyyy · 9 Jan 2006

Welcome to jref! I hope you'll be able to improve your japanese here! ^^

ullvarg · 10 Jan 2006

welcome

トラちゃん1 · 10 Jan 2006

ullvarg said:
welcome

I justed watched your signature for a good 2 minutes and I can safly say it was the best 2 minutes of my day.
Thank you

nathan_forst · 10 Jan 2006

mikecash said:
Congratulation! You made it work!

One small note...though the elongated vowels often seem extraneous, they're really very important. So 窶堙??堋､窶堙? instead of 窶堙??堙? and 窶堋?窶堙ｨ窶堋ｪ窶堙??堋､ instead of 窶堋?窶堙ｨ窶堋ｪ窶堙?/QUOTE]

Thank you for the advice, mikecash. I hope that you will catch me in many more Nihongo errors. After all, that is the only way I'll be able to learn.

窶堋ｲ窶堋ｭ窶堙ｫ窶堋ｳ窶堙懌?堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽ

I have one more question to ask. I know how to write in hiragana and katakana now, however, I don't know how to write in kanji. Is there a way to do this using this feature, too?

nice gaijin · 10 Jan 2006

another case with an elongated vowel, くろう (苦労) means hardship. adding "go" before and "sama" after this makes it more polite, as this is part of a set phrase (決まり文句, kimarimonku). In cases like this, when the words have kanji for them it's important to include every vowel, or else you might not see the kanji you intended.

edit// for typing in kanji, you type the reading that you look for and hit spacebar once. This will pull down a list of possible kanji combinations that suit the pronunciation you typed.

nathan_forst · 10 Jan 2006

nice gaijin said:
another case with an elongated vowel, 窶堋ｭ窶堙ｫ窶堋､ (窶ｹﾃｪﾋ廱) means hardship. adding "go" before and "sama" after this makes it more polite, as this is part of a set phrase (ﾅ塚??堙懌?堙ｨ窶｢ﾂｶ窶ｹﾃ･, kimarimonku). In cases like this, when the words have kanji for them it's important to include every vowel, or else you might not see the kanji you intended.

edit// for typing in kanji, you type the reading that you look for and hit spacebar once. This will pull down a list of possible kanji combinations that suit the pronunciation you typed.

In my English-Japanese/Japanese-English dictionary, there is no elongated vowel (窶堋､) after 窶堙ｫ. Why is that?

nice gaijin · 10 Jan 2006

I couldn't tell you, but try typing "くろ" and hitting spacebar. chances are, the only kanji you'll see is 黒. what dictionary are you using?

nathan_forst · 10 Jan 2006

nice gaijin said:
I couldn't tell you, but try typing "窶堋ｭ窶堙ｫ" and hitting spacebar. chances are, the only kanji you'll see is ﾂ坂?｢. what dictionary are you using?

ﾂ坂?｢ That is the one, yes. However, doesn't 窶堋ｭ窶堙ｫ (ﾂ坂?｢) mean black in Nihongo?
I use the Martin's Concise Japanese Dictionary and the publisher is Tuttle Language Library. I find this dictionary rather reliable, so, I don't understand how they could get something like that wrong.

nice gaijin · 10 Jan 2006

yes, the meaning for 黒 is black. My point is that if you type out a standard word and don't see the kanji that you expect, chances are you mistyped the word. I have never seen 苦労 pronounced without the extended vowel, and this is the first I've heard of it written that way in a dictionary. I guess my point is, if you want to type the word, you have to use the standard spelling for it.

here are some online dictionaries I find useful:
Jim Breen's Pages Have Moved
国語・英語・四字熟語のオンライン辞書 - goo辞書

and an entry for 苦労
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.....y=16&je=%CF%C2%B1%D1&kind=&kwassist=0&mode=0

nathan_forst · 10 Jan 2006

I thank you for your assisstance. I'll check out the links.

ullvarg · 11 Jan 2006

ﾆ暖ﾆ停?ｰ窶堋ｿ窶堙｡窶堙ｱ said:
I justed watched your signature for a good 2 minutes and I can safly say it was the best 2 minutes of my day.
Thank you

No problemo ;-)

Mike Cash · 11 Jan 2006

nathan_forst said:
ﾂ坂?｢ That is the one, yes. However, doesn't 窶堋ｭ窶堙ｫ (ﾂ坂?｢) mean black in Nihongo?
I use the Martin's Concise Japanese Dictionary and the publisher is Tuttle Language Library. I find this dictionary rather reliable, so, I don't understand how they could get something like that wrong.

If that's the same one I'm thinking it is, it sucks like an Electrolux.
The one I'm thinking of, for example, under the English word entry "order" lists the Japanese as something like "meirei, chuumon, junban" without giving any distinction as to their very, very different meanings in Japanese.
If it has no way of showing elongated vowels, throw it in the trash. It will most definitely frustrate the hell out of you for entering kanji on your computer, and will cause to you have to later "unlearn" all the stuff you thought you had learned right the first time from it.

窶堋ｭ窶堙ｫ (ﾂ坂?｢) does mean black
窶堋ｭ窶堙ｫ窶堋､ (窶ｹﾃｪﾋ廱) is another word entirely.

Here's a tongue-twister I made up to help illustrate the importance of the elongated vowels (and the glottal stop represented by a small "tsu", which also tends to get ignored by many beginners):

ﾋ?ｪﾂ催ｰ窶愿ｺ窶｢v窶堙娯?凖ｭ窶堙姑棚ﾆ暖ﾆ暖窶堙固｡q窶彷窶堙娯?ｰﾂｹ窶堙ｰ窶｢ﾂｷ窶堋｢窶堋ｽ

窶堋ｨ窶堙??堙??堋｢ﾂ窶堋ｨ窶堙≫?堙? 窶堙個窶堋ｨ窶堙??堋､窶堙? 窶堙個ﾆ棚ﾆ暖ﾆ暖ﾂ窶堙個窶堋ｨ窶堋､窶堙? 窶堙個窶堋ｨ窶堙? 窶堙ｰﾂ窶堋ｫ窶堋｢窶堋ｽ

(The day before yesterday, I heard the sound of my husband's younger brother's fish throwing up).

Pachipro · 11 Jan 2006

Excellent example Mike. Simply excellent!

Carlson · 11 Jan 2006

I love Family Guy

nathan_forst · 11 Jan 2006

Carlson said:
I love Family Guy

Most people do, it seems.

Carlson · 11 Jan 2006

Yes... i just couldnt think of anything else to say in this thread...

Question regarding text

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