Problem with the "n" sound

magnum sharp · 8 Mar 2010

Hi.
I've just begun to learn Japanese and I'm having trouble knowing when to pronounce the "窶堙ｱ" sound in different ways. I've heard it being pronounce as the regular English "n", as "m" and as "ng" (like in "fang").
How do I know when to pronounce it in which way?

Toritoribe · 9 Mar 2010

The pronunciation can also change depending on what sounds surround it. These are a few of the ways it can change:
[n] (before t, ch, ts, n, r, z, j and d)
[m] (before m, b and p)
[ŋ] (before k and g)
[ɴ] (at the end of utterances)
[ũ͍] (before vowels, palatal approximants , consonants s, sh, h, f and w)
[ĩ] (after the vowel i if another vowel, palatal approximant or consonant s, sh, h, f or w follows.)

N (kana) - Wikipedia

nice gaijin · 9 Mar 2010

weird, I did a whole post on this subject back when I was studying Japanese phonology... where did it go?

edit: Aha! had to look through my past posts because the search function suuuucks haha

...su...ending question?

Ben Bullock · 9 Mar 2010

Toritoribe said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_(kana)

Those are a few of the ways it can change? What are the other ones?
I've got a page about this too:
What are the differences between kana writing and pronunciation?
but it only has four different pronunciations.

nice gaijin · 9 Mar 2010

Ben Bullock said:
Those are a few of the ways it can change? What are the other ones?
I've got a page about this too:
http://www.sljfaq.org/sljfaq/afaq/kanavpron.html#syllabic_n
but it only has four different pronunciations.

Your link is broken, i think you were trying to point here?
What are the differences between kana writing and pronunciation?

Check out the post I linked to above, I think it goes a little deeper to explain the reason and the rule for how the sound changes, rather than just when and how. There are as many realizations of ん as there are places of articulation in Japanese consonants, plus nasalized versions of all the vowels.

Ben Bullock · 9 Mar 2010

nice gaijin said:
Your link is broken, i think you were trying to point here?
What are the differences between kana writing and pronunciation?
Check out the post I linked to above, I think it goes a little deeper to explain the reason and the rule for how the sound changes, rather than just when and how. There are as many realizations of 窶堙ｱ as there are places of articulation in Japanese consonants, plus nasalized versions of all the vowels.

Thanks for the link fix. It's all very interesting about the 窶堙ｱ pronunciation, but the problem is when there is lots of disagreeing information, trying to sort out who's right. I don't like to try to guess it. The above information at the link was supplied to me by a member of sci.lang.japan newsgroup, but it doesn't agree with what you said about the sound 窶堙ｱ窶堋ｳ in particular. I really need to get some kind of reference I think.

Toritoribe · 10 Mar 2010

@The OP,

I think the most important ones, especially for beginners, are N before vowels/semivowels, as nice gaijin-san explained "In the case of vowels following the 窶堙ｱ mora, the sound is realized as a nasalized version of the same vowel." Even if you pronounce, for instance, kampai as kanpai, it would be able to be recognized as 窶堋ｩ窶堙ｱ窶堙鞘?堋｢[kampai] relatively easily. However, as for the nasal vowels, the meaning could be completely changed, if you mix them up just like "ﾂ親窶認[窶堋ｵ窶堙ｱ窶堙､窶堋､ shin'yuu] <--> ﾂ進窶愿ｼ[窶堋ｵ窶堙ｱ窶堙俄?堙｣窶堋､ shinnyuu]", "窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堙ｰ[窶堙俄?堙吮?堙ｱ窶堙ｰ Nihon o] <--> 窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堙啓窶堙俄?堙吮?堙ｱ窶堙 Nihon no] <--> 窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ津ｪ[窶堙俄?堙吮?堙ｱ窶堋ｲ Nihongo]".

Problem with the "n" sound

magnum sharp

後輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

nice gaijin

Resident Realist

Ben Bullock

Fried Egg