Popularity of Jrock in Europe/Western World - Up to us, or them?

okay going off topic again, but does anyone listen to the podcasts on www.podomatic.com ? I start next week. ^^ hopefully.

It's not necesserally true that jrock fans are the only people who listen to Japanese music. Seemingly Goths listen to bands such as Dir en grey, Despairs Ray, Malice Mizer in particular, etc etc. Bands like them would Apply to them, and songs like 'no.666, Yuugure No Shazai, and Tainted World' would be popular among them. ^_^

hm...no this store sucks! xD it's so expensiv there!!! but the cd cost
maybe 15 euro... in the J-Store cost 19 euro.... so it's cheaper.... but i wont buy this. ^^''' i don't know why... maybe i'm baka... xD

ah i've forgotten to mention: I found lots of german artikels about Diru O.O
I can show you if you want.. but well it's in german.. ^^'''

exist something like that in your country too??? :?
I'm scared... x,D

That would be because jrock is popular in Germany. ^^

yeah... i know.. u.u'''
ah you're not far away from me... O.O so maybe J-Rock could become famous in your country too ^-^
but not evry magazine likes J-Music... there are very bad articles... :auch: veeeeeryyy bad ones.... *hit* xD

I can't see J-rock being 'marketed' in the UK, because the industry is obviously going to promote its home-grown music the most. I mean, intrinsically J-rock is a very marketable commodity in any country, especially when you consider all the visual bands... its got the potential to be huge. But even if the media here suddenly 'discovered' it (which I'm sure they will do before long, if they haven't already) the chances are that they'd keep it under their hat in the fear of inadvertently ousting some of our native musicians who are making money for our economy. Sorry to sound cynical, but it's in no-one's commercial interests to promote J-rock in the UK.

Of course, they can't stop us, the fans.......... muahahahaha! J-rock will rule you all........

The way forward

Me and Kinsao have been discussing the ways in which Jrock can be distrubuted in this country, through the fans. This conversation aroused when we began to speak of the interview of Dir en grey in the BBC program 'Japanorama'. I personally feel that Diru got ripped off by this show, for a number of reasons. It feels weird watching the show, because for 99% of the UK's population it will be new to them. XD Whereas, we're experts.

The show focus's mainly on the bands appearence, and performance visually. How they use blood guts and so on, with shocking lyrics. As Kyo recalls, he wants to 'aim to shock' (A unique factor). However the show doesn't really let us here toom much of the music. Who cares if they look like 'goths' and use blood, of course to Britain, music is the most important. They were in my opinion, showing them ina very negative way, as if they were a cult band....ugh. To continue this point they didn't give any points on how to learn more about Diru and buy the music...truly awful. If they cared so much, that is what they would have done.

We spoke of the issue of how we might see a new music revolution very soon in the Western World music scene. This being a jrock 'fan' band, or a VK band, those of which are more common to orginate in America. The amount of VK bands is increasing, and some day we will see one of these bands make it big. The Loudness were influenced by legends such as the Beatles and Alice Cooper, then the Loudness influenced X Japan, and also hideto was influenced by Kiss, and in the style he played. As many of you know, X Japan and Malice Mizer have then become a popular choice of influencial abilities among modern jrock bands. In this, we trace the roots of Japanese rock/Visual-kei, as being American music. They took one Idea - and made it into their own thing mixing it with their own ideas. This, on the other hand, can be copyed - us for example.

I hopefully plan to make my own band someday based on jrock. ^_^ as I am beginning to learn guitar. Many of us are on our own, as jrock fans. We don't have any friends to share this music with, that we like. Many of us don't want to share it, and like to keep it as a unique thing about ourselves. Perhaps what i am trying to say here is, that jrock 'fan' bands are the way forward, or for a certain extent. Me and Kinsao think it is a good idea, but does have it's faults as far as the British attitude goes. Would we sing in English, or Japanese being influenced by them? O_O If we sung in all Japanese the British would mock us, think we are what they say is 'weird' and think that there is no point in singing in English. Then again, we could sing in english and they be happy XD, but then it would be to a certain extent, 'British/Americain' rock. So we agree that it would be sung in Japanese and english, as X Japan did, to get over seas fans and to make their songs more unique. After all, a person who is ''remotely musical can't put too much emphasis on lyrics''. XD We feel this is an option to gain the British interest, and media, etc etc etc.

uhh...I spent to long on this. >_< what do you think?

In my opinion. J-rock will never really be mainstream in western society. Because except for a handfull of people, they are closed minded. I'm not sure about Europe, but I know in the U.S. people (the majority) don't watch movies that have subtitles, cause they are to lazy to read. Then for many in America, the image will be simply to much.

Like my personal example, dispite the fact, that I am so not Goth at all, my parents think I am turning goth, cause I like these japanese musicians who in their eyes look goth or weird. And my aunt says its not normal. All this because some of the bands with their VK style looks goth, but their music isn't even goth.

The image, despite it sometimes being sim to 80's glam rock, will be to much for most to handle, especially the feminime looking ones. Cross dressing is not excepted at all in american society.

Then even none VK bands will have a problem because of the language, difference. How can you listen to something that you don't understand?

If it does come to the west it wont be mainstream, at most it will be a bigger role in the anime subculture, like it already is.

Hopefully most bands can tour with out it being anime conventions, especially those bands who don't do anime songs. (I know some bands do hold concerts outside of cons like the despair ray tour that just past (and one that was only an hour away from work but i couldn't go to cause stupid boss wouldn't let me off) but most bands do cons.)

Also a lot of Japanese music fans, only listen anime music, and while anime music is good sometimes, some won't venture out.

Very true about the goth image. There are many people out there that judge a bands catagorial status as 'punk, goth' etc (Emo to certain extent. &not;_&not. But language wise, i suppose it would be an encouragement for more people to learn Japanese, or have the urge to go and visit Japan. I can't really picture it, but it matters what way a non-Japanese Visual Kei band goes about it. Perhaps distribute their music first, then reveal their VK image later on. If a band was dressed up as Malice Mizer, JESUS THE AMERICAINS WOULD MURDER THEM! But for a band such as Dir en grey, Gazette, Kagerou etc, it wouldn't be a problem as such, tho you'd still get the people that think it's stupid.

They don't necesserally have to be Visual-Kei bands, but a band that sings and performs in a jrock way. I don't know why, but I just seem to think there is a huge difference sound-wise between the Eastern and Western music worlds. Here I am listening to Alice Nine randomly. I'd rather listen to Alice Nine than Blink 182(just an example). But who knows why. I suppose Americains and japanese have different factors they look for mainly in jrock. For Western World the lyrics are important, and it must always be in tune. Whereas the japanese...uhh....FREE WORLD! XD well it would appear that way that bands such as the Pillows, Diru, Laruku, X Japan and Kagerou seem to improvise alot, which in fact shows potential in a band. Showing they have knowledge of harmonisation, chords and the classical features of playign with one another. But don't forget, there are many types of jrock, and Americain Rock.

jrock -
Progressive rock - The Pillows
Alternative Rock - X Japan
heavy rock/rock/heavy metal/slow rock - Dir en grey

American rock -
Heavy metal/gothic - Maryln Mansonn
Progressive rock - The Pixies(well i think so)
Emo rock(KILL) - H.I.M

Americains catagorise rock-type music into Emo, Goth, Millie etc etc etc...I find that stupid honestly. The Japanese on the other hand catagorise it into proper terms. A band is a band, and I think bands themselves in America are dim-minded. Maryln Mansonn will JUST play heavy metal, whereas Dir en grey plays ballads, synthesised rock tunes, almost heavy metal like songs.

Sorry to focus on America just, but alot of this type of attitude we speak off comes from there. :sorry: I like the music Sweden produces, and Germany. But America and the UK are the culprits.

Also matters on the band attitude - are they ready to take on discrimination in order to sucessfully make jrock more commonly known. And forgot to mention, I'm not intending that jrock become main-stream. In my opinion Rap will always be the top, along with somethin else(POP, rock, hip hop, but they change from time to time), but just to let jrock have a more known presence through shows such as MTV. It's only a matter of time anyway, you can see it in America. They are losing ideas, movie-wise and music-wise, so they'll do what they always do, steal others ideas..but this time be jrock!! XDXD

Yea, I have a dream that one day one some music channel possibly fuse cause fuse is more open minded than mtv, that probaly at some obscure time, that I could host my own weekly j-rock hour, and have artists come and do interviews and show j-rock vids. Thats like a really big dream I want to do.

I can see J-rock-influenced bands becoming more popular in the US and UK, naturally as J-rock becomes more well known. As I've said, I don't think J-rock will ever be actively marketed in the west because, well, there's nothing in it economically, is there? But of course, no one can stop the fans being fans, supporting their fave bands and spreading the love!

And, it's natural for people becoming musicians, to be influenced by their fave bands like the examples Yokan said, so I think there will become a greater number of small bands influenced by J-rock. I'm thinking really of high-school/college bands here, and then maybe (as they get older! lol) of amateur bands playing tiny gigs in local pubs etc. (IMO often where you hear the most interesting of native UK music these days!)

The thing is, I'm sure a lot of these bands will be pretty crappy. Not to slag them off (before they even exist!) or anything, but you get what I'm saying... I mean, hell, if I was to join a band tomorrow and we started to write our own material, I'm sure that'd be crap too - out of all the many people who love making music, there's only a tiny percentage that actually make great music.

BUT - it only takes one or two of these embryonic J-rock-influenced bands to get well known, to make a huge impact on influences in the UK. You only have to look at the impact of The Beatles and/or Kiss and/or Alice Cooper, and you can see how only one or two bands can start a snowball of change rolling. And I personally think it will happen, eventually, because even though music is largely controlled by the industry, there are still some forces which are unstoppable.

However, I don't think there's much point in putting too much emphasis on the VK aspect (even though there are a lot of fans who got hooked in by that, and even some shallow fans who only like it because of that ). Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of VK - but I see it more as a lifestyle thing than a musical thing. VK is about appearance, and the reason I love it is because there is an interest and freedom in the VK 'look' which happens to appeal to my nature. Musically, I don't associate it. By which I mean, there is a total distinction for me between my 'pin-up boys' and the music I listen to.

Maybe VK will take off as a style in the UK. Heaven knows it's probably the most marketable aspect of J-rock. I can see some British designer 'discovering' this and deciding to capitalise on it. However, as far as 'real' J-rock goes, I think it will be the bands influenced by it that really drive any musical things that happen. Especially in the UK (as opposed to US) where we've traditionally been downbeat about our looks! (yeah, we do the 'costumes on stage' thing a bit, but one thing the Brits hate is to be thought to take themselves too seriously. XD)

One way that I personally think J-rock bands are 'special' compared with most UK bands at the moment, is that their music has a kind of freshness and enthusiasm which seems lacking in our music. It's like we 'did' the whole glam-rock thing, and now it's so yesterday, and not worth going on with... whereas with J-rock bands its like they've just discovered all this stuff and are like boys in a playground. And that shows through in their music (I'm not talking costumes here).

The key words I think of are: energy, enthusiasm and sincerity. If J-rock bands inspire UK bands to have those same three things, they will inevitably percolate through British music, regardless of what clothes the bands are wearing.

Ewwwww and that show with Diru... I said to Yokan it made me feel kind of strange... There was a bit of their music playing, but at no time did it really let you hear what they sound like.

Thinking about it, what really pissed me off was that they seemed to be trying to portary Diru not only as a 'cult' band, but what they were emphasising... it was all the shock factor... As though they were trying to put Diru across as the most shocking, the most violent, the most explicit, blahdeblah... and this annoys me because in a way it's setting them up for a fall, because they're not the loudest, heaviest, most violent, most gory band out there and they never pretended to be and they're not trying to be.

Not to mention that it totally misses the point.

Actually I think it's a bad idea for any show about J-rock (at least initially in the UK) to focus on only one band. They need to do their research properly, and... oh, but don't even get me started! :sorry: *clears throat* "now in my perfect world...."

on the channel ARTE in germany the aired a show about visual kei in japan
and the talked a bit that there where more and more people in Germany
becoming fans.
It tought that is was a good show... a not at all like you describe how
the portraitet diru in the show you name above.

advigilo said:

on the channel ARTE in germany the aired a show about visual kei in japan
and the talked a bit that there where more and more people in Germany
becoming fans.
It tought that is was a good show... a not at all like you describe how
the portraitet diru in the show you name above.

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That's cool!
I wish there would be a good show like that in the UK...
The trouble with the Dir thing is, it was too short, they couldn't really do anything other than a few clips of the band live, snippet of interviews, and a quick show of some cosplayers. Whereas on the show from ARTE it sound like a bit more in-depth.

i think i have the clip somewhere on a cd, but im not sure :-(

if so then ill upload it.

advigilo said:

i think i have the clip somewhere on a cd, but im not sure :-(

if so then ill upload it.

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Please! ^v^

Yeah I forgot the fact that on Japanorama they called them a 'cult' band. &not;_&not; Which they have no right to see, as I'm pretty sure Dir en grey don't call themselves a cult band. O_O

There will be for certain loads of fan jrock bands which are, weak. But then again that all goes down to their own attitude, and how they go about promoting themselves. i think it's best to start small(locally), otherwise British people may be put off by this sudden new type of music(to them). It's not so much about good instrumentation and good singing, really it's about ''energy, enthusiasm and sincerity'' in their performances and recordings, as you say kinsao. Tho perhaps many jrock fan bands and a few really really marvellous ones is what we need!

We should play jrock to people more. XD To prepare them for what is ahead. That way even people in bands can be inspired to start their own type of 'fan jrock'. If that makes sense.

kinsao said:

One way that I personally think J-rock bands are 'special' compared with most UK bands at the moment, is that their music has a kind of freshness and enthusiasm which seems lacking in our music. It's like we 'did' the whole glam-rock thing, and now it's so yesterday, and not worth going on with... whereas with J-rock bands its like they've just discovered all this stuff and are like boys in a playground. And that shows through in their music (I'm not talking costumes here).

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hehe, school boys in a playground. that would be me! But very true about the whole 'glam' rock thing that 'we' developed. It's not so much that we did it. Bands such as Queen, the Beatles, Ozzy Osbourne just happened to be British. T_T Bands such as Franz Ferdinand, kaiser Chiefs [even Mcfly i guess] etc, I think are very amateur-ish, I'd know about franz ferdinand since i was at one of their concerts with my girlfriend a while ago. ^o^ It was okay, nothing marvellous tho. Tho in comparison with a Dir en grey concert, it does seem quite slow-ish in their movements on stage, whereas Diru act like dare-devils. Jrock bands do have a uniqueness.

ps. SENOR SENORA SENORITA!!!!!!

I think it would be great, for lots of J-rock amateur bands. It doesn't matter if they are bad... anyway, many amateur bands are bad! The more people who love J-rock, it is the better.

Small and locally is the best way for bands, always. They will do the hard work with ambition to one day become famous and convert people to their music... another way is made by music industry, that's not so good, it makes the 'plastic' bands.

Maybe J-rock music is not so different from European music rock... it is different... but not sufficient different to off put fans of European rock. I think rock fans largely like to hear a good guitar and a good bass and the good singer. It is the lyrics in Japanese which is really big difference.

Then again, i like amateur bands. intresting to see different points of views and way of playing. ^^

Yeah, me too. I think that bands can lose something if they become very popular/major. Maybe because there is more at stake for them and more hanging on what they do. :? Of course, mainly bands improve on their technical skills, but also you can hear very interesting things of well known bands when they weren't well known. For example, to hear La:Sadies compare with Dir... different... I can like Dir better because I can hear better skills, compositions etc... but at the same time there is interest to listen La:Sadies, too.

good point. same goes for MYV and Due le quartz.

So true, MYV and Due Le Quartz are two completly things, Just like Dir Eng Grey and La Sadies, Hell even Indies DeG sounds completely different from now DeG there single I'll is perfect example. And DeG as a cult band is simply wrong and the interviewer had absolutely no understanding of the band.

I'm not saying it won't happen, cause didn't Time or some other big magazine include The Brilliant Green (an awesome band btw) in the top 10 international bands. Yea and as far as them being boys on a playground that is so true, they are willing to do alot more experimental stuff, than alot of other Mainstream bands.

And as far, as kids forming J-Rock (not neccesarilly VK) style bands. I think while it would be good for introducing people to jrock, IMO it won't be J-Rock, it in the west would simply be this New Style based on J-Rock. Mainly cause they are missing the one important thing that makes it J-Rock. Is that its JAPANESE ROCK. If you aren't Japanese, and or you aren't singing in Japanese its not Japanese Rock. Its Just Rock. And lets say you do sing in Japanese your going to get alot of people who will be like your some Wapanese poser.

I know my last post was a bit pessimistic but I sincerly do want for doesn't matter if it is J-Rock or J-Pop music to succeed in the U.S. I mean I had such hopes for Utada when she was crossing over, but she just flopped. As far as J-Music goes, as Anime is becoming more in more mainstream people are going to hear the music, like it wonder who or what that person is and its going to suceed. From anime music they will eventually discover J-Rock.

Thats how it happened with me, I discovered anime in the Good old days of the ORIGANAL toonami. I was in middle school at the time, and didn't know it was anime or even what anime was. I simply went online looking for more info on my three favorite shows (Sailor Moon Gundam and DBZ) and discovered it was japanese and anime. After discovering it was originally Japanese I wanted to find out more about it. So after searching endlessly for an anime shop in the N.O (pkk you should know this one the one on Elysion Fields (if its still there)). I watched the origanal versions of the shows, and heard this great music. And as I became more and more of an anime fan I started liking the music more and more so I started buying anime soundtracks. And then if I had a fav. Song on the soundtrack I would wonder who the artist was and then buy a CD by that artist. And thats how I became an J-Pop music, fan. Then in HS I became a J-Rock fan because this girl in the anime club introduced me to 3 bands Dir en Grey (who at the time didn't like it wasn't until the last year 2 years that I started getting into them) L'arc~en~Ciel (who I loved) and Malice Mizer (who I loved the music but the imagery was to much for me). And the rest is as they say is history.

This is an edit. I talked about J-Rock and how the goth loser's treated me in another forum, then I talked about in H.S how another girl introduced me. I don't want people to get mixed up. I went to 4 diff HS. An all girl Catholic School In New Orleans, which I transferred from Mid Year to go to an HS in VA. Then I moved to texas for my sophomore year, and I went to school. When we moved from apartment to a house the next year my old school wasn't in my district so I had to go to another school. The school in VA is where I was introduced, and my last HS in Texas was where the goth thing happened.

Intresting. ^_^ in terms of anime music, I found shows such as Inuyasha and Rurouni kenshin, my two favourites, very helpful. They introduced me to bands such as Do as infinity, BOA, l'arc~en~ciel, Ayumi Hamasaki, Utada Hikaru, Puffy ami yumi, Shonen Knife etc. I was never really too much into anime music till recently, otherwise I just got info on bands from websites forums such as this one, this one being the best of course!! XDXD I never really found animes useful, unless it was jpop.

I've never even watched a complete anime! I found J-rock by accident...

they are missing the one important thing that makes it J-Rock. Is that its JAPANESE ROCK. If you aren't Japanese, and or you aren't singing in Japanese its not Japanese Rock. Its Just Rock.

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Yeah.... of course Japanese rock has to be Japanese! But... I don't see that it matters... :? because after all, it is just another one of those useless music classifications. To me J-rock is just - well, it's just rock music which happens to be Japanese... the only reason I like many J-rock bands better than many UK rock bands is just that I personally find the music better and/or more to my taste...=)

... if some things of the style of music becomes 'imported' back to UK, it's not J-rock anymore if it's being made by British people... but... I don't care what it's called or who makes it as long as it's good music.

And lets say you do sing in Japanese your going to get alot of people who will be like your some Wapanese poser.

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Well yeah. And I think you would be, really, to sing all in Japanese if you're not Japanese. but I think it could work if you sung mostly in English but with some Japanese, because after all J-bands use English in their lyrics too. Breaking down the barriers is good =) as long as it's genuine and not done in a poser sort of way... and I reckon you'd want ur main audience to understand ur lyrics, yeah? because no matter how much we say lyrics aren't everything, they do add to the message. And sometimes the language can be part of the message (like if you have a special reason to sing in that language, for difference in sound or cultural implication)...

hm... but there were another report about visual kei.... and they said that visus were depressed before they heard J-Music... -.-'''
for everybody who want to see:

http://www.rbb-online.de/_/polylux/aktuell/beitrag_jsp/key=rbb_beitrag_mini_3306302.html