Please correct if I am wrong

coolio123 · 14 Aug 2013

here is the excerpt at the back of a book, My computer did not include the kanji for there names so bare with me please .

高校進学のため、東京から一人で田舎に越してきた湯好き。しかし、住むのは親戚でもないきりしまはるとの家！つまり居候！
"会ったこともない奴が、いきなり自分の家に住むなんて。。。。"納得いかないはるとをよそに、初日からすっかり馴染むゆずき。...

There is more but the rest I understand.

1.Does shinseki demo nai, mean that the girl(Yuzuki) lived in Haruto's house whom does not have any relatives?
2. What does nante do in that sentence?
3.よそに means? what about いかない is that from 行かない? but that wouldnt make sense I think.
4. Does this mean From the first day Yuzuki fit in(i.e adapted to lifestyle).
Thanks alot in advance.

Glenn · 14 Aug 2013

1. It's used for emphasis. 普通は別の町へ移住するんなら、親戚の家に泊まるのが常識なのに、親戚でもない霧島はるとの家に移住したんだ！信じられないでしょう？Make sense?

2. It's used to show that the speaker is looking down on the idea proposed in the preceding sentence/clause.

3. 他所 is one way of writing it. That may help, but ～をよそに is a set pattern that means something like "without considering..."

4. No. It's almost the 正反対.

coolio123 · 14 Aug 2013

1. So are you saying by 親戚の家に泊まるのが常識なのに = Even though it would be common sense to stay at a relatives house?
I don't get how those two are the same does demo nai not negative the thing before it as in "there is not ~~~" whatever was before it?

2,3. Alright thanks.

4. Can you explain why its the opposite 馴染む = to adapt to, no?

Glenn · 14 Aug 2013

1. "So are you saying by 親戚の家に泊まるのが常識なのに = Even though it would be common sense to stay at a relatives house?"

Yes, pretty much, although 常識 in Japanese seems to be used in a more biting way when criticizing than "common sense" in English. Or... maybe it's just different. "You'd think you'd stay at a relative's house, but noooooo..." for example. This is the expectation that 親戚でもない is contrasting.

4. 馴染む is to get comfortable with/close to (人になれて親しくなる。また、物事や場所になれて親しみをもつ。馴染む). I'm taking it here as bascially being like なれなれしい, which is usually used in the negative. Plus, there's the whole part about 納得いかないはるとをよそに, which means she's basically caste aside Haruto, and doesn't even care that he doesn't approve. The whole feel of it is that some new person who Haruto isn't even related to (and hasn't even met!) shows up at his house, doesn't care that he may not want them there, and gets all comfortable like they belong there, even though they're freeloading.

coolio123 · 14 Aug 2013

When you said よそに is without considering did you refer that back to 納得 because it means consent? Also how about いかない what is that doing? Would you mind giving me your interpretation of that sentence, I still dont understand because I thought it would be something like

"Without Haruto's consent, from the first day Yuzuki is already fitting in" sounds weird though I guess.

Glenn · 14 Aug 2013

納得が行く means to agree with something or be fine with it, so 納得いかない means not to be OK with something. That's modifying Haruto, so he clearly isn't OK with this stranger (Yuzuki) showing up at his house. Yes, my understanding of 馴染む comes from that context.

納得いかないはるとをよそに、初日からすっかり馴染むゆずき。(Yuzuki just shows up and acts like she belongs there from day one, not caring that Haruto isn't OK with her being there (in the first place).)

That's how I'm reading it.

coolio123 · 14 Aug 2013

not caring that Haruto isn't OK with her being there (in the first place) makes sense to me.

However I don't get where you got the belongs there from part.

I'm still struggling to understand why 馴染む can mean the opposite of what it actually means. Can it not be for example

From day one Eba made herself at home (got comfortable), not caring that Haruto isn't ok with here being there.

however I think our translations are similar but just differently worded.

Also if よそに = "without ~" then doesent the fact its 納得いかない make it a double negative = positive?

Glenn · 14 Aug 2013

It's not "without" so much as it is "putting to the side".

馴染む doesn't have to be a positive thing. In fact, I thought なれなれしい was a good thing until I continued to hear it in negative circumstances. It seems like you'd want to be close to someone, but the sense is more acting like you're friends even though you haven't known each other long enough to actually be friends. It has a sense of imposing.

If it weren't for all that comes before it, i.e., 住むのは親戚でもないきりしまはるとの家！つまり居候！"会ったこともない奴が、いきなり自分の家に住むなんて。。。。"納得いかないはるとをよそに... I'd probably have no problem agreeing that 馴染む is a good thing, but in this context, it certainly doesn't seem to be. ...where she's living is Haruto's house, even though they aren't even related! Leaving Haruto aside, who didn't condone, thinking "I'm supposed to suddenly live with someone I've never met?! in my own house??!!"...

coolio123 · 14 Aug 2013

do you have examples of negative circumstances with 馴染むand なれなれしい .

Glenn · 14 Aug 2013

There's this definition of なれなれしい:

２ぶしつけである。遠慮がなさすぎる。「上司に―・い口をきく」
なれなれしい【馴れ馴れしい】の意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書

And there are various example sentences here:

なれなれしい【馴れ馴れしい】の英語・英訳 - 和英辞書 - goo辞書

馴染む doesn't seem to have this sense outright, though:

なじむ【馴染む】の英語・英訳 - 和英辞書 - goo辞書

I can't really do any better than that. It could be that the writer used it incorrectly, or took some liberties with it, or was being sarcastic or something like that, but I can't see how it can be interpreted as a positive thing here given the context. I suppose there's also the possibility that it's a fairly neutral, or usually good thing, but given the context it's seen as a bad thing, and is used in contrast to the circumstances, but that would be a fairly stylistic use of it. I'm not saying that's not the case, but it would be beyond the scope of our discussion so far, I think.

Toritoribe · 14 Aug 2013

coolio123 said:
1.Does shinseki demo nai, mean that the girl(Yuzuki) lived in Haruto's house whom does not have any relatives?

Your misinterpretation is from 親戚でもない vs 親戚もいない. It means Yuzuki lived in Haruto's house who is not her relative.

coolio123 said:
4. Does this mean From the first day Yuzuki fit in(i.e adapted to lifestyle).

Your translation is correct. 馴染む is the word from her view point. It doesn't have negative nuance (or rather, positive for her).

Glenn · 14 Aug 2013

I guess I was reading too much into that, or at least skipping the part where I got there from the usual meaning. That would make it more like "Yuzuki comes in and gets all comfortable right away, much to the dismay of Haruto." The feeling is like that, I mean. I'm not necessarily saying that's how it should be translated.

coolio123 · 14 Aug 2013

Thanks for both of your responses

so でもない means that the person being talked about is not a whatever[ in this case relative]
もない means that the person(haruto) does not have relatives?

Glenn · 14 Aug 2013

親戚でもない = "not even a relative"
親戚もいない = "doesn't even have any relatives"

Please correct if I am wrong

coolio123

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

coolio123

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

coolio123

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

coolio123

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

coolio123

先輩

Glenn

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Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Glenn

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coolio123

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

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