"On" and "kun" readings

eeky · 15 Jul 2010

To native Japanese speakers, do on and kun readings "feel different"? I'm not talking about feeling different simply because, for some particular character, the different readings might have different meanings or different grammatical uses. I'm talking about a general difference in "feeling" that exists simply because a reading is on or kun. For example, do the kun readings feel "more Japanese"?

Do native speakers always instinctively know which type of reading they are using in a given situation, or would they sometimes need to look in a dictionary to check?

Toritoribe · 15 Jul 2010

eeky said:
To native Japanese speakers, do on and kun readings "feel different"? I'm not talking about feeling different simply because, for some particular character, the different readings might have different meanings or different grammatical uses. I'm talking about a general difference in "feeling" that exists simply because a reading is on or kun. For example, do the kun readings feel "more Japanese"?

Generally, yes.

eeky said:
Do native speakers always instinctively know which type of reading they are using in a given situation, or would they sometimes need to look in a dictionary to check?

We usually know it from the context or the flow of the sentence. The writer would put furigana on the word when it's difficult to judge.

eeky · 15 Jul 2010

Toritoribe said:
We usually know it from the context or the flow of the sentence. The writer would put furigana on the word when it's difficult to judge.

Right, that would tell how to pronounce a difficult kanji, but my question really was whether, assuming the pronunciation is known, a native speaker would automatically know whether it was an on or kun pronunciation (excluding very obscure words or readings, I guess).

Glenn · 15 Jul 2010

Probably mostly, but there are some like 帆 and 夕 that they may not know the 音読み for because they're not that commonly used. For example, there's a 四字熟語順風満帆, which is read じゅんぷうまんぱん, but some people read it じゅんぷうまんぽ, because they only know the 訓読み for 帆 or mistakenly think it's the 音読み. Similarly, my ex misread 一朝一夕 as いっちょういちゆう, although it's actually いっちょういっせき. Again, the 音読み is seldom used, even in compounds (like 夕飯 (ゆうはん)).

AJBryant · 15 Jul 2010

The latest chapter in a book I'm translating had a long section about the emotional feel of "wago" versus "kango" -- the author suggests that there's a very distinct different feeling between the Yamato kotoba and the Sino-Japanese equivalents. For example, "life" 命（いのち) vs 生命（せいめい); "longing" 憧れ (あこがれ) vs 憧境 (どうけい); "parting" 分かれ (わかれ) vs 別離 (べつり).

Toritoribe · 15 Jul 2010

Glenn said:
Probably mostly, but there are some like 帆 and 夕 that they may not know the 音読み for because they're not that commonly used. For example, there's a 四字熟語順風満帆, which is read じゅんぷうまんぱん, but some people read it じゅんぷうまんぽ, because they only know the 訓読み for 帆 or mistakenly think it's the 音読み. Similarly, my ex misread 一朝一夕 as いっちょういちゆう, although it's actually いっちょういっせき. Again, the 音読み is seldom used, even in compounds (like 夕飯 (ゆうはん)).

In addition to Glenn-san's, another good example would be 絵. Probably most of all Japanese think that え is kun'yomi because of its on'yomi かい(e.g. 絵画[かいが]) and the use of え like 絵[え]を描く. But actually, え is also on'yomi.

AJBryant said:
The latest chapter in a book I'm translating had a long section about the emotional feel of "wago" versus "kango" -- the author suggests that there's a very distinct different feeling between the Yamato kotoba and the Sino-Japanese equivalents. For example, "life" 命（いのち) vs 生命（せいめい); "longing" 憧れ (あこがれ) vs 憧境 (どうけい); "parting" 分かれ (わかれ) vs 別離 (べつり).

Yeah, exactly. That's why I answered "Generally, yes" for "do on and kun readings "feel different"?" and "do the kun readings feel "more Japanese"?" So the more correct answer would be "Mostly yes, but there're some exceptions" as usual.

Glenn · 16 Jul 2010

AJBryant said:
憧境 (どうけい)

That isn't 憧憬? Although that seems it's supposed to be read しょうけい.

AJBryant · 16 Jul 2010

Glenn said:
That isn't 憧憬? Although that seems it's supposed to be read しょうけい.

Crap, I knew the kanji were too small on this screen (that's what happens when I select them individually. Damned IME.) Yes, you're right -- but the furigana with the text read どうけい -- although both pronunciations are possible. If it had occurred to me to try しょうけい (which, I gather, is the preferred pron.), the IME would have given it to me. It refused to accept どうけい when I typed it.

That's actually one word that wasn't in my vocabulary. I doubt I'll forget it now.

Glenn · 16 Jul 2010

Haha. How are you selecting them individually? I have that issue with the traditional pinyin input I have on my Mac, which can be annoying (I'm used to typing sentences and converting when I'm done).

どうけい is definitely a possible reading, but it's marked as 慣用読み:

どうけい 0 【▼憧▼憬】
（名）スル
〔「しょうけい（憧憬）」の慣用読み〕あこがれること。
「―の的」

The しょうけい entry has a little more information:

しょうけい 0 【▼憧▼憬】
（名）スル
〔(ドイツ) Sehnsucht〕あこがれること。あこがれ。どうけい。
「異国の文化を―する」

But then again, I don't know what can really be gleaned from this as far as usage. I tend to go with the more "official" version in these cases.

AJBryant · 17 Jul 2010

Selected dô and then ran through kanji, and then kei and ran through kanji. I was too lazy to blow up the screen and actually do a radical search.

Bit me right on the oshiri.

"On" and "kun" readings

eeky

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

eeky

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

AJBryant

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Glenn

一切皆苦

AJBryant

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

AJBryant

先輩

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